Plagarism of Content

Everyone one is so quick to say "I hope they don't use my stuff or I hope they give credit to the maker". Well so far I have went on many sites and basically I see almost everyone (even the most exprienced skinners) using the majority of maxis stuff. Yeah you take a top that is long and erase part of it to make a crop top or you take the pj's and re-color it and put pretty pictures on it. basically you are taking maxis stuff and altering it and it is no different when someone use your top and re-color and put different pictures on it. I recently saw on simstuff.com a pink wool sweater, but you know it looks alot like the sweater that came with bodyshop, nicely re-colored and texturized I must admit, but a maxis skin nonetheless. So how can people claim it theirs when it's not really. I don't see many giving credit to maxis, but they are quick to want credit. I haven't uploaded any of my creations yet, but if I do I will make sure to thank joe, who didn't thank kitty, who thank nite guy, who didn't thank Maxis. Get the point.

 

Oh yeah! I wouldn't do that! But I just would like to have ppl come and express there points of view on my journal!

 

Booba

You are right. People are taking Maxis supplied material and either recoloring them or changing them in other ways.
I believe it's the "other ways" that is bothering people.
Yes, you can take a female top and add a different neck line by manipulating the white alpha page or you can take 2 different items of clothing and combine them.
Considering that Maxis has supplied us with a limited number of clothing options for the Sims2 BodyShop program, people are having to change what is supplied in order to make NEW clothing designs.
The new design becomes a new article of clothing. It becomes something that Maxis didn't supply and therefore belongs to the creator. However, Maxis would get credit with the body mesh since we have no way in creating our own at this point.

Amy

 

Amy

Then what is the difference if I take one of your creations and change the neckline or add a few buttons? and call it my creation. Shoud I give you credit? even though you did not create the mesh? Some people do make such small changes that one can not tell it from the orignal creator except they made theirs blue. Then there are really good skinners who have signature styles, who create their own meshes and you can tell who is the creator (that goes for objects too), yeah they need to be credited. I just hope these great skinners don't disappear when sims 2 hits the stores, but I don't think their stuff should be re-colored and uploaded. Bottomline folks if you re-color and only re-color, keep it your own game. If you load it up, give credit. I just don't think one should sulk if this re-color is uploaded.

 

Hi Booba, if I may re-enter the discussion here. I am not sure as to what your point is here.

At first you say, if you re-colour a skin keep it in your own game and then you tell us skinners we shouldn't sulk if it is recoloured then uploaded. I am not sure of your point here...could you please clarify?

 

yeah some ppl are wrong about using other ppls stuff, and claiming it as theirs. That is not right and no one should ever do that. That is why on my site I make sure I tell ppl where I got my pictures from because they are not mines and I didn't make them!

 

...this turned a little ugly didn't it

from where i stand, maxis provided us with those meshes and all those other things as a template...sure a recolor isn't much of a change, but in itself, it's still a difference to the orignal, likewise any reskin. the big difference tho is this: maxis are in it commercially. the thing is, they are paid to make stuff for their game because they are a business. It's cold and impersonal i know but its a fact.

this doesn't mean i support ripping off their work, but the thing is, the rest of us who make new skins are in it to make skins others can enjoy. we make work so others can appreciate what WE have done, and hopefully reap some enjoyment from our creations. those of us who create these things, we create them out of good will, when someone takes our creation, making superficial changes and calling it completely their own, it's wrong. when someone takes your concept, changes it beyond recognition, then by all means, it's their work. when someone says, i got my idea from this guy, and used his meshes/art etc, its a good thing, because people are making something of your creations. by all means, credit maxis if your skin is based off theirs, but honestly, how many of us are JUST recoloring? at any level, there's has been work put in and those who put in that work deserve their credit.

 

At this point in time, I think the "no one credits Maxis" argument is worthless. It's obvious we're using Maxis' meshes, being as there is no means at this time for us to make our own.

 

good point...

not as if everyone's just doing recolors anyway

 

Where in the directory?

i have all the skins an all that but where in the directory do these genetics and other bits of features go?

 

Plagirism

Hi folks,
Let's remember, this is a game... there is no plagirism.

Anything you post regarding your customizations or creations becomes public domain. You have no claim to any of it once it's posted.

Just like if you wear an outfit out in public, and other ppl see it, and next thing you see 10 ppl wearing your outfit, or copying your design, that is not plagirism.

You don't OWN any of the Sims 2, other than the license to play it. That's what you bought. Try reading those license agreements, instead of just clicking "I agree". You are not being plagirized.

Any content you publish is open to the public to use as content in their own game, tweak, and republish however they choose.

I'll agree it may be "rude" or "socially discouraged", but not plagirism in the slightest. That said, I'm sure everyone appreciates all the work ppl did in creating their outfits & Sims. I sure do, and I know how much time is involved in making them.

 

I dunno... that's kind of the same as saying a book or a CD, as soon as it's available to the public to buy or read/listen to in a library, is no longer "plagiarize"able. Yet go ahead and try copying it out and claiming it as your own in a university thesis. See how long you last in the academic world.

It's NOT a question of legality, copyrights, etc. It's a question of ethics, of morality. Just as a university would be pretty **** quick to throw someone out for stealing entire pages of a book for their thesis, I think the Sims 2 online community should come down hard on blatant texture map thieves.

Otherwise, we're NOT a community. If we just sit by and say "oh quit whining so what if you had your stuff stolen" artists won't feel we care about them anymore, and leave. Why would I share my creations to people who don't respect my work enough to defend me when it's ripped off, and simply tell me to sit down, shut up, and create for a community that doesn't respect the work I put into it?

 

Alaskasmith - nicely put!

Poobaloo I am sorry but I believe that you are wrong at saying that people taking our work is not plagiarisim.

Nowhere are we saying that these are no longer owned by maxis as outlined in their terms of agreement (which I do read acutally - you never know when someone is going to chuck in spyware and get you to agree to it) but we are saying that the new outfits we create from these are part of our intellectual property. We came up with the concept, designed it and really out of the goodness of our hearts, post it for people who do not wish, or cannot design, to download for their game. You downloading these items does not mean that you own it, or can use it without asking us for permission to recolour etc. We still retain the rights to that item.

Think of the painting of Heinz Beans by Andy Warhol. Well the copyright on the beans logo is owned by Heinz, Warhol just created something different from it (let's only hope he asked for permission first!). If you were to take Warhol's painting without asking and recoloured it and called it your own there would be a huge outcry - why? Because you infringed Warhol's IP and plagiarized his art. This is very similar to what we are arguing about here (although I do not profess to have half of Warhol's talent).

Keep in mind that a lot of creators would be quite happy to let you use their textures/maps/bumps if you ask. I certainly have given permission to everyone who has asked me.

Really it's just a matter of behaving like a decent human being.

 

I guess that's where we differ...

They're not part of your intellectual property. Period. No more than palying, say a driving game, and taking a driving route thru a city, and claiming anyone who takes your route and tweaks it is taking your "intellectual property"... you're PLAYing the Sims. You're not creating intellectual property. You are playing a game. That's where ppl are going wrong... All the time you spend in Paint Shop or Adobe, is just your way of playing the game.

No, you don't own squat, nor does anyone need to ask you for permission, once you post your game play (aka creations) out on the web.

There is no such thing as "letting one use" your creations. It is my right to use them. You're not letting me do squat. From the minute you post your creation to the S2 website, it is part of what I bought, to download custom content. It is 100% my right to use your creations however I (or anybody) chose.

That's nice, but not your place to give someone the right to use something they bought.

I agree. It is very much an honor system, and I'm an honorable person. But once you talk plagirism, you're throwing honor out the window, and claiming legal right, which you simply don't have.

If you're saying it's an honor system, and perhaps "dishonorable" to claim something you didn't create as your own creation, that's cool. But you're claiming some legal right that doesn't exist. The legal right that exists, is that anyone who bought the S2 game can download custom content, and use it, tweak, it, and republish it however they want, with or without respect to the original creator.

-Poo.

 

We're not talking about a book or CD. We're talking about playing a game. Huge difference.

I'll agree w this. It is 100% bad ethics, by my definition of ethics. But it is not plagirism.

Again, nothing is being stolen in the first place...

This same discussion comes up in every game nowadays that involves sharing internet content, and it's the same thing every time. The ppl who publish content won't leave, cuz they enjoy posting the content. That's why they do it in the first place.

You share your work cuz you enjoy doing so. Period. It has nothing to do w ppl "ripping you off". What are they costing you? Fame? Money? Honor? Nothing. I don't advocate "sit down and shut up". But you post your work to the community cuz you enjoy playing the game that way. No other reason. You're not providing a service. You're not earning income. You're just playing a game, and sharing your playing experience.

Everyone appreciates the community, and we all have a common standard of ethics. Most of us, at least.

But there is no plagirism going on.

 

one thing i got to ask though. if plagarism is that so irrelevant in the world of TS2, why in the world is it that when mentioned to the maxoids, they actually discuss it and not just say something like "plagarism isnt a problem here".

also, how do you explain the paysites? obviously by your idea, you have free reign over everything they have as soon as you bought the game. so why are there excpetions and they charge people for it.

i dont know where you come from, but creating custom content for the game is not "playing" the game. i couldve easily created custom content for ts2 before the game was even released. how do you explain that "playing" the game.

im sure Josh will have a nice long post in here before too long. i await his response to your posts. ought to be fun.

 

I guess it is only to be expected that if I go into a Sims2 site, and speak in contrast to the general populace arguing in favor of protecting "their work", that I'll take lots of flack. The insults tho, are unwelcome. I'm just speaking my mind after all, and you all speak of "respect".

Now YES, you ARE just playing the game. That's all you bought the right to do. You did not buy the right to create & own the copyright rights to skins, or "parts" of the game, you own the right to play it, period.

Whether or not you choose to use another program (photoshop?) in conjunction w the Sims in no way changes things. One could argue that I need to use WinXP to play ANY game, so there's always "other" software involved. You're just using more, by choice.

Other than that, KatAnubis, I think your'e right on in your assessment:

Maxis has usurped all rights to all content created for the game. Pay sites are borderline illegal, just like I couldn't go reverse-engineer WinXP, and sell enhancements for it. Maxis has no reason to press the illegality of pay sites charging for what is essentially Maxis' content, because the multitude of sites sharing content actually fuels game sales. There is a disincentive for Maxis to crack down on ppl charging to make money off of selling content for their game, which they are not allowed to do, per the ELA.

There is no "plagirism". That was the subject of this thread. Disrespectful claiming of the play someone else did as one's own, perhaps. But not plagirism. That does not equate to plagirism.

Ppl argued that they had a legal right to their "intellectual property" they create for this game, and they don't. There is no intellectual property in this case, nor do you own any copyrights for things you create / share.

By the way, Nanshi, I have seen some of your creations around, and they are awesome!