Plagarism of Content

thoroughly fed up.

"If you don't want your game-play methods used & shared by others, then don't post them."

Hmmmm. I am starting to think that is what I will do. I am tired of seeing my stuff left and right and upside down without credit to me, I am tired of seeing my stuff ripped off onto CDs for sale on Ebay.com (I mean really, WHY sell something THAT'S ALREADY FREE??) I am tired of people in the Sims community telling me I shouldn't care about these things, and people with no legal background trying to define internet copyright laws at me when they change practically every second and are different in my country ANYWAY.

Why the #$%& should I continue to give to this community? Tell me why? It feels like WORK to me now, except I'm not getting paid and no one appreciates it.
It's not my attitude that needs to change. It's YOURS. All of you who say it's no big deal. It's enough to keep me from posting any more skins until I calm down. In the meantime, I'm sure my older stuff that I used to learn to skin for the Sims 2 will be all OVER the place without credit, and the newer, better stuff will never been seen by anyone except me, in my own game.

Since, of course, that seems to be what people prefer. *nods*

 

Wow...I'm just going to back away from this one. Maybe I don't understand the point to getting so upset about something like this. And by all means, feel how you want, but I state MY opinion...not what I think people should or shouldn't do. I give credit where credit is due, you should take your speech to Maxis and tell them to post it to all those who are stealing your work if it's that important to you.

 

No problem, Cairo, my comments weren't directed at you. I understand that it's a sad fact that once a designer releases a skin into the public domain it's subject to unscrupulous people repackaging it as their own and claiming the credit. I'd be naive if I thought this wasn't going to happen. And yes, legally, there's nothing the original designer can do about it. In a perfect world this just wouldn't happen. Sadly, this world is far from perfect.

What I object to is the people who seem to think that the original designer has no call to be upset by this blatant theft of credit. It shows no respect to the work and creativity that designer has put into their creation.

Cairo, you mentioned that there are only a finite number of hairstyles, make-up colours, outfits etc. and another designer may make a skin very similar to an existing one. I have no problem with this at all. Coincidences happen. Nor do I have a problem with someone being inspired by the work of another and creating something themselves in a similar vein. What I do have a problem with is when someone downloads a skin and re-posts it elsewhere claiming they are the one who created it.

Bottom line: If a designer has spent several hours pouring their creativity into a skin then they deserve credit for it. If someone else claims credit for this then the original designer is entitled to feel cheated.

Alaska, I know it's frustrating but please don't let this stop you posting your creations. It'd be a sad loss if you did. :disappointed:

 

The key to avoiding content plagiarism is to make sure your content is sufficiently famous as to be unmistakably yours. I mean, nobody plagiarizes the Mona Lisa. Why? Because nobody who tried it would be able to convince anyone that it was their creation!

With that in mind, the key here is, when you distribute anything, not to just distribute it to a few isolated places and let it spread by grapevine: Drop it like gigantic bomb everywhere. Make sure anyone who notices it will notice it is yours.

Alternatively, you could just stop getting so worked up about it. I mean, it's just a game.

 

Heheh, it's a bit of a catch 22 situation though, J.M. It's hard to get sufficiently famous if there are others claiming credit for your work.

 

That's where the ninja death commandos fit in.

 

Because you want to.

That's the only reason any of us post anything, or even play the game in the first place. You're not performing a community service. You are self-indulging in a game. And if you think your time is so noble, quite frankly, I'd rather you donate your time to my neighborhood's schools, or some other better social service.

You're not doing anyone any favors. You're playing the game cuz you enjoy it. You enjoy sharing your stuff, period. If you don't enjoy it, then stop. It's that easy.

If the ppl who "steal" your stuff & repackage it piss you off that much, then I guess you should get ready to be pissed off a lot in life. Or at least in the Sims, cuz those ppl are playing the game perfectly w/in their legal rights to do so.

Really. It's just a game.

 

You misinterpret me, if this is at all directed towards me. I am TOTALLY 100% in favor of a designer's right to be upset about this.

But this thread is not about being upset at copiers. It's about plagirism. That's why I spoke up.

Designers have every right to be upset any time anyone copies something you do. But to call it plagirism is wrong. To put "do not redistribute" warnings in your content is like me going out on the street and writing my name on the sidewalk and claiming it mine. You just can't. It's all public domain.

You are not "creating" something. You're just walking the sidewalk. You're playing the game. That's where ppl go wrong... Ppl have a hard time discerning between what they own (the right to play the game) and what they don't (the game content that maxis owns all rights to once publicly posted, which you are only allowed to "use").

It's not plagirism!

That's my point.

 

Why do you insult me for voicing my opinion?

I respect the community's work as much as anyone, and have never "plagirized" or even copied someone's work as my own. I have better things to do.. and if I ever downloaded something and changed it for the better, I'd have no objection to saying "Alaska created this originally, and I made these changes" Big deal. But if Alaska posted a note in the readme that said "Do not modify or redistribute", then she's overstepped her rights. She has no right to DEMAND a tribute.

It's like respect... you can't demand it... it is only given.

Nor, do I have a problem w giving credit. She is welcome to post "created by Alaska, enjoy!" anywhere, and I would say Oh cool, another outfit by Alaska. Great. Give credit. Don't demand such of others tho...

"For ppl like you"... What kind is that?

I have nothing against giving credit. But once again, this thread is about plagirism. I'm against the designer claiming a legal right to the designs. That's all. Moral right, sure. Ethical right, sure. But legal, no.

That's all. No plagirism.

 

Downloading a skin created by someone else, changing the credit so that it claims to be your own (called 'lying' last time I checked) and uploading it to another site has nothing to do with playing the Sims. This is something that happens outside the program entirely and has nothing to do with gameplay.

Designers fully expect people to download their creations, add them to the game and play them, that's why they do it. But what they don't like to see is other people lying and saying they are responsible for that creation. Are you condoning people who lie like this? Would you do the same?

Alaska isn't doing anybody any favours?? Nice to see you have such a low opinion of her talent. She has spent many hours creating original artwork for no financial gain. She deserves to be recognized for that hard work and talent and it saddens me to see people who disagree.

 

Then maybe we are at cross purposes.

I've been arguing this from an ethical point of view, never a legal one. As I said before, I agree totally the original designer has no legal rights to their creation especially once they release it into the public domain. Maybe I am at fault here, but from your posts I thought you were implying that there was also no ethical problem with people claiming credit for the work of others. To me, that implication belittled the hard work the original designer had put into their creation.

I am a firm believer in 'credit where credit is due'. I've always put 'Please do not copy, modify or redistribute without permission' in my readme files. I'd seen that more as a polite request than a demand.

 

#1: You can still plagiarize something in the public domain. As I said before, try handing in a university paper that you copied and pasted entirely from a well-known piece of work, and see how long you last in that institution. Perhaps a definition of the word "plagiarism" would help here:

plagiarism: n 1: a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work 2: the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own

from dictionary.com

See? It has nothing to do with copyright, public domain, legality. All plagiarism IS, is taking something of someone else's and saying you did it. By that definition of the word it IS used correctly to describe the lame things happening in the Sims community today.

#2: I still haven't heard a decent reason why I should continue to share my stuff. It just isn't fun anymore when I don't get appreciation, credit or respect from it. So I dunno. Maybe the paysite route would assist in preventing some theft (and maybe help pay my rent while I go to school?) Maybe not, with the whole Sims Exchange thing.

The thing about the plagiarism situation is, there's not a whole lot people can really do about it. Except not do it themselves, and hope others will have enough respect not to as well.

 

I wouldn't copy your work and claim it my own, whether you said please, or made outright demands, or claimed yourself to be the almighty and would strike me down if I did so. I wouldn't copy it cuz I'm not that way. As are most ppl. If you tell a software pirater "please" don't pirate software, they still will. It's just how some ppl are. Doesn't make it okay, it's just not illegal in this case.

If you say please do not copy or redistribute, that's cool, and such a notice would not upset me, since you're asking. Tho I wouldn't have copied it in the first place.

I said many times it's dishonorable, and perhaps ethically bad, and unappreciated by the general community. But not plagirism. I do not like when ppl who will create skins will go to the extent to say it's outright plagirism (illegal stealing of work) when it's not. It's perhaps amoral, but that's it. Plagirism doesn't govern morality, it governs the illegal copying of work, which this is not.

If your case is that this is disrespectful, I would defend you tooth & nail. But if your case is that this is plagirism (as the thread originally claimed) then I will defend the alleged plagirists, who are not in fact plagirising.

I think we've come to agreement here. I just see these concepts of "plagirism" and "intellectual property" come up in thread after thread in games that share content nowadays, and it gets old. There is no such thing. All you own is the right to play the game. Period. No property, real or intellectual, no rights to the skins, or whatever, no right to run a pay site for profit and sell your content, and no right to demand credit, ever, for credit is never "due" (mandated)... it is only "given" by those who choose to respect the creators.

 

A few ppl don't respect you, and thus you feel those who do, don't matter? You do get respect. From me, for one. From many others. Just not from a small grp of ppl who will steal your ideas. Who cares. They'll get their lot in life. There are always bad apples in a bunch, and I'm the type of person to not let them ruin the game for me. A few morons can ruin it for you?

If it's not fun anymore, then you shouldn't be playing. It's a game. Games are about fun. That's the only reason you should continue to play. If you enjoy it.

If you don't like it, then stop following the message boards about a game that you don't even enjoy. Don't you have better things to do? There's a million games I don't like, and a few that I do. So I play the ones I do like.

I'm guessing you DO like the game still, or you wouldn't even be out here bothering to read this. So if you want to skin, skin. But don't whine about the bad apples. Every tree has them. Deal with it, move on. It's a game. Enjoy it, and stop worrying about "credit".

 

These "words and ideas" are not "your own" once you publicly post them! You don't own squat, other than the right to play the game. So assuming you abide by the ELA, you play the game, and own nothing else. No words, no ideas. Your "ideas" in a philosophical sense, are yours... but you don't own the "idea of an outfit you created" once you publicly post it. You then give it up to the world, and all rights to that idea, to Maxis. You just don't own it any more. You agreed to such when you clicked "I agree" in the game installation.

This is where I draw the line. Like I said, it's not plagirism. You're playing the game. From the moment you share your creation, you have given up rights to the "words and ideas", and they are no longer yours, in any way, shape, or form!

It is disrespectful to claim improper credit, but NOT plagirism, since you no longer can lay claim to the ideas.

That is why it is not plagirism.

 

I disagree that creating Sim skins is merely "playing the game." The reason I disagree is because almost everything I create, though I use Maxis textures as a template, is almost completely new from their skins. It's the same level of skill I'd use to create a digital painting, and I believe art can CERTAINLY be plagiarized.

Maxis owns my .package files according to their EUA. I doubt they own my .psd files from Photoshop though.

Anyway, I am tired of arguing this. If one respected a Sims artist they'd politely abide by their conditions in the readme file, they wouldn't hack up/recolour their creations and call it new, and they certainly wouldn't deny them the right to be annoyed when other people do. Yeah, it happens. But maybe it'd happen LESS if people didn't have such a lax attitude about it. If you see skins that are obviously someone else's, contact the creator and the site they're hosted on. Shrugging it off'll just continue to alienate and upset the original creators (like me) until they don't want to be part of the uncaring community anymore.

As for me, I'll take a bit of a break from skinning and explore more of the gameplay. I haven't yet managed to get a Sim to Platinum level yet.