That's one of the things I value about the world, is the wide variety of opinions, and I respect the right of others to have different ones from my own. The only thing that bothers me is intentional ignorance, which occurs when people never question the world around them. Nature is a complicated and still mostly misunderstood thing, Michelle. From osmosis we evolved to genders, and I'm not sure how because I'm not a scientist ... in some ways evolution incorporates "intelligent design" though most scientists view it as accidental design, accidental but necessary ... if you want to think something intelligent had a hand in that, far be it from me to stop you. The beauty of evolution is that it is random and accidental and yet wonderful things have evolved. Which came first, the chicken or the egg, the bee or the orchid ... we can only postulate over glasses of wine, of which I admit I can have two and then I get silly and can't enunciate properly. Not an Aussie by any stretch ... As for what I write, I'm a professional writer of all things under the sun, everything from training classes to magazine articles to technical manuals. In my spare time I'm a romance novelist. Not published yet, but hoping to be someday.
As others have said: evolution is more theory than fact. However I also agree that "theory" is not the same thing as fanciful. I don't believe that there are no questions without answers. Some questions are maybe even better without an answer. If theoretical science can analyse and describe the basic laws of nature and from those fixed laws then go on to describe the hows and whys of matter interacting with matter then that's good enough for me. Sometimes asking why a rule exists is pointless ... usually because the asker wouldn't understand the answer anyway. Anyone who's tried raising kids knows this ... and that's probably why much relgious stuff goes down the old parental route. The thing is that all the rules only apply to the universe we're in and to nowhere else (eg Heaven, Hell, or even Limbo ... let alone parallel universes ) Therefore those rules came about when the universe came into being. I you think that sounds about right then it is only possible to hold three basic views of creation: First is the essentially atheistic anthropic view that says this universe has all the right laws that suit we humans because if it didn't we couldn't have evolved to wonder about it. Second is the Creationist view that says one creator or another made everything pretty much in the way Wily Coyote assembles a roadrunner trap from components that magically appear in his paws as needed. The third way is the Intelligent Design view that ascribes to a Creator the twin jobs of first blowing a really big bang (let there be light anyone) and secondly the more arduous and (in my humble opinion) the infinitely more admirable task of making all those pesky laws and constants from pi, through the square root of minus one, to Avogadro's Number. I like number three because it allows me to make room in my life for God without forcing me to turn my back on centuries of human thought and earnest inquiry. Nincompoops like GWB think intelligent design means God bothered with all those twiddly bits inside us ... but that's cos he thinks the Gravitational Constant just means that the gravity is left on at night when he's a'seepin in his pwetty Sponge Bob jammies. Although I stick with evolution in spite of the faults with the theory I don't worry about the standard objections like the humming bird and that odd wasp that survives by laying its eggs inside some other poor critter (or all the other bizarre symbioses). Since animals invented the backbone you would have needed 2 and a half million 70 year lifetimes to have stuck around to witness all that has happened. (Don't forget that by then the eye had already been "invented" by evolution ... ever see an octopus eye, same basic design been around half a billion years ... evolution doesn't bother doing the same trick twice ... eg skates and rays were "flying" in water long before any landlubbers got the idea of leaping out of trees ... don't forget the trees first had to "decide" to evolve to get away from all those leaf munchers ... Aw I'm waffling too much.
I was a little surprised by this. I started 1st grade in 1961. I don't remember anything but evolution being taught. I know that creationism could have been discussed because discussing God or religion was acceptable then. I grew up near Dayton, Tennessee which is famous for the Scopes vs Tennessee "Monkey Trial". The Butler Law, which made it illegal to teach anything other than a fundamentalist viewpoint was overturned in 1967. I have to assume that my area had discussed evolution vs creationism to death. After 50 years, I've gotten use to things changing. I remember in 7th grade spending the year studying Africa. Before the year was over 6 countries had changed their name, capitol, and government structure. Everything I learned about dinosaurs has been disproved. A host of new elements have been added to the periodic table. I have a degree that is obsolete. All the mechanical devices I could once repair are now computerized and alien. I'm almost afraid to look things up. I'm appalled at how little I know now! You'll notice I seldom use facts when I post. I'm not sure if what I learned is still valid. Getting older stinks. Once I found that coloring my hair didn't color the gray I decided to consider them my "silver" highlights. It saves a ton of time and money. Besides...I earned every last one of them. (And just in case hubby isn't looking in the mirror..I do occasionally point out that we are getting gray, we are getting old, we are a lovely matched pair.) Well Sylla, it appears you will be in charge of pouring the rest of us into a cab or rolling the unconscious home for girls night out! Good to know someone can hold their liquor. (Anyone have a clue where we'd have to meet so that Brits, Aussies, and east and west coast Yanks would only travel their fair share?)
lol....i just noticed everyone is anti-intelligent design...and no one has a pro-intelligent design argument.
If you've got one, let's hear it. We are open-minded people . It would be fun, somewhere out there in the middle of the ocean . For now, I just bring a glass of wine to the computer, read stuff, post stuff and imagine we're all at the same table. I'm having a grand time. One day, probably not long from now, there will be a camera on top of every computer. But I think we'd be laughing too hard to get any communicatin' done .
Double LOL. I'm not surprised that you missed my long-winded admission that Intelligent Design is my preferred stance ... complete with its indictment of Bush's undoubtedly simplistic understanding of the term and the associated theory. http://forums.worldsims.org/showpost.php?p=82879&postcount=42
Silver hairs, silver hairs ... omg I hardly have anything else but it's a family trait. I've had gray hair since I was 24, and I gave up coloring it two years ago. My husband likes my real hair color, says it's lovely, and I admit I do too, despite some silly people thinking I'm older than I am. I have a youthful face and they usually discover their mistake when I look up or turn around LOL ... Intelligent design, non-intelligent, theory or fact, we just don't know so I prefer to let the mystery be. I think there is a lot of evidence for evolution and that's the best theory anyone's come up with, still holds after two hundred plus years and more evidence comes out all the time. My point is, nothing has been discovered that refutes evolution, so it's a good working premise ... And what's this east coast/west coast stuff? I'm smack dab in the middle of the country and like it that way. Can I join your little island party? I hope there's an island anyway, or at least a big boat ... no open water for this gal. Too wet, and that movie was just too creepy. Besides, I say England is just about midway between everything, let's meet there ... Drinks at Mirelly's. I'll bring the little paper umbrellas.
Aw now you're trying to do me out of some travel. I nominate Iceland. I'll bring the Jacob's Creek (hey I can afford it if you're all such cheap drunks ... me? I'm a lush who can still talk after 4 glasses*) ... can someone make sure to bring those little paper coaster napkin things ... we don't have them in the UK *I don't know what happens after 5 cos that one sends me straight to sleep. :(
It was simply a reminder to the individual that does the math for a central party location that the U.S. is huge. With sylla in Australia it's going to require the level of math that uses pi and other funny symbols. If you all leave it up to me, I'll have to use a globe, string and guestimation. If we aren't meeting at Mirelly's, do we care if we leave water rings on the furniture? Iceland sounds lovely. Can we get a table where we can watch active volcanoes? A cruise might be nice. At least they have stewards that can pour us into our cabins. Sylla wouldn't have to be responsible for a bunch of unconscious women.:knockedout::sleeping: To be honest, I'm more worried about our ability to understand each other. I'm picturing Kristal and me whispering ..."I didn't understand a word that girl said but it sure sounded good, didn't it?" Josh, mirelly did take a pro-stance "if appropriately applied". Obviously then, this pro-stance could only exist in some alternate universe...or England. (How do they teach this in other countries anyway? Have we discussed that?) The title of the thread includes the name Bush. That guarantees that the word "intelligent" would be omitted from the "design". This might explain our President's creative pronunciation and spelling, though. He took the intelligent design language curriculum.
I just wanna go to Iceland cos I saw a TV show that showed the locals have a cool way of dealing with a flat tyre on an off-roader ... mind you even the term 'off-roader' has much wilder connotations there .... Ooh ... Waaaay off topic. Even Zy has missed my long waffle posted yesterday and I can't be arsed to go look it up again to post the link to it ... it's up there /|\ /|\ somewhere ....
Iceland's cool with me. It's a Matrilinear society, or so I've heard, and the phone book is by first name. Plus all the roofs are brightly colored so it looks really cool from the air. I've only been to the airport.
Sigh. My husband does. He had read a different article somewhere at work, in which it discussed "Intelligent Design" being a little different than just some sort of Dubbya's idiotic yammering. The article he read talked about presenting it in a science class sortof like this: "This is evolution. Some theorize that a higher power such as God or Allah or some other force actually helped evolution along somehow. This theory is called 'Intelligent Design.'" He and his nurses had discussed the article and were talking about how all those "athiests" were fighting against it, like it was stupid to fight it because again, it's just a theory, just like Darwinism is just a theory. Why couldn't both of them be presented equally in a science class? So when I mentioned it last night, he blinked and said, "Omigawd, you're one of THOSE people!" He then proceeded to explain to me why it wouldn't be offensive to children of other religions, how this is just a theory but so it evolution, how it wasn't "God created the Heavens and the Earth in 6 Days", but that it was the theory that a higher intelligence that we do not understand might have directed evolution. He can't understand why that doesn't belong in a science class!! Needless to say, we're barely speaking today.
We're going to Iceland to learn to change tires (tyres)? Sounds like a good reason to go there. My first car was an old International Scout. I've done a lot of off-roading. I suppose a new method for changing a tire might come in handy. I am NOT trying any of their local delicacy though. They age, by burying, (read rotted) shark or whale meat. Nah...I read your post. Ideally all perspectives should be discussed in schools. Nothing should be off-limits. I personally have no problem with crediting a higher power for the unexplainable. Many mathematicians that spend a lifetime studying esoteric math concepts go insane. I would think that allowing for a divine hand certainly beats insanity. Unfortunately this discussion was about teaching creationism as a separate theory. I know that schools would never implement this appropriately. I would rather it not be taught at all because in the U.S. this would be nothing more than a back door for religious indoctrination. Basically fundamentalist Christianity is the equivalent of Muslim fundamentalist extremists. To allow a group that believes their way is the only way and that you'd die for these beliefs to determine curriculum is dangerous. Having been raised as one, I understand the power and the seduction of being given the Keys to the Kingdom. I can't remember a Sunday school class that I wasn't asked, "what would you die for?" "Would you die for your religion?" As a child I would have gladly done so. I would have done it without fear. A part of this will always be ingrained in me, too. I was lucky enough to have had some teachers that allowed me to question and could admit, in a whisper, they didn't believe certain things either. Many people know that something about teaching "creationism" makes them uncomfortable. I know the real danger it presents though. I chose not to raise my children this way. I do not want it for any child in our schools.
LOL Zy. I suppose the real problem is a peculiarly American (USA) one. Although the UK is a 'constitutional monarchy established by and for the Church of England', the Arch-bish of Cantab wouldn't dare to dictate the science curriculum of state funded schools. Perhaps it is mean to point this out but we had our religious wars here in Europe and -- eventually -- we drove out all the blowhards. Maybe the real lesson here is to wonder what will happen to the blowhards of Islam and where they might go and ... yikes! ... I hope they don't colonise the moon. I don't want a load of bin Ladens passing over my head every night aqll armed with quintillions of tons of rock for the dropping!!
I saw a comedian on TV last night (I really am slipping) who compared America to a teenager. I think in a lot of ways it's true. England and Europe and a lot of other countries have already been through their adolescence. Don't forget, the Roman Catholic Church used to have the power to excommunicate (and dethrone) kings. You learned the hard way to keep church and state separate. Also, of course, we're stuck with the Puritains who founded this country and still stubbornly refuse to leave. Like many teenagers, America (I'm talking about the country as a whole now, not individuals) tends to see things in terms of black and white. A "my way or the highway" attitude that assumes that if one person is a left-handed anglo-saxon working-class protestant that everyone is. We say we're a melting pot, but we're not. We're more like a stew with warring ingredients. If we manage to make it 500 years without imploding I would expect some maturity would set in, but I could be wrong. Some countries just get more enmeshed in their stupidity, not less. Sigh. Any good jobs in the UK right now? Maybe I should just move.
LMAO, sbw! Y'know if they're still there they must be 4 hundred years old ... maybe there's something in all that clean livin' after all ... All good points BTW
