a copy of the shoutbox saved here Shoutbox Vega: Hi Jill Arik the Red: Anyone spying in the box right now? ManagerJosh: Could we continue the discussion please in a thread and not in the shoutbox? . There is some valuable information that's going on in here that should be saved surprised_by_witches: It's easier to blame musicians or movies or video games than address the real problems behind such violence. I don't think censorship is ever the answer, and I don't pretend to have all the answers, or any of them for that matter, but I do feel strongly that education is needed, and much better gun control. What possible valid use does someone have for the kind of guns this shooter used? They should be banned. I think a two-shot rifle or shotgun would suit most people's hunting and home protection needs and the rest should be outlawed, or at the very least much better controlled. And, they knew this kid was a potential problem. I know they can't watch every crazy person out there, but surely this can serve as an object lesson. I think perhaps a mental health screen should be required before purchasing any gun. To me, that's common sense. If I saw stalker on a guy's rap sheet I'd think, hmmm ... no guns for you, buddy. SolidSnake_19: I think it's a whole big thing to make that particular group look bad to the general public. Also the games comment: I play a ton of GTA, MGS and several other mature titles and have yet to do anything violent to a fellow person. Chee-Z: what ticks me off is this wacko comparing himself to Jesus. Jesus didn't kill people. >:| Vega: i agree with you Slightly! i don't like the music of Marilyn Manson but i know many people who listen it and their are not violent or disturbed Slightly_wacky: like they blamed that Columbine masacker on the game Doom and was saying that Marilyn Manson influenced them with his songs, yea right come on i listen to him all the time and you dont see me going "Must go into a uni and kill loads of ppl" Slightly_wacky: i mean come on, if they keep blameing things like this on games then they will end up being baned and i dont want that to happen, i love playing games! Slightly_wacky: it is really bad what happend, there now blameing these kinda things on Games, which is pethetic really, cant they just see that some ppl are metaly disturbed and its not games that are making ppl do these things suitemichelle: while terribly tragic... the equivalent is happening in Iraq and parts of africa daily. How can we accept it as normal? Mirelly: Terrible news, indeed surprised_by_witches: I don't understand how someone could do something like that ... it's always so incomprehensible. hugzncuddles: I know. Just heard about it. Such a terrible thing to happen. ManagerJosh: Not really so happy anymore.... surprised_by_witches: Good morning, everyone! Happy Monday! suitemichelle: Hey John! JohnEZ: Hey guys, what's up? Vega: hi everyone !! Jazz: I claim the 3rd spot in shouting
good idea suitemichelle we can allways save here the shoutbox when it contains interesting discussions...
Don't blame the games. Blame the Guns. In Australia we have real gun control laws which work. You can still can own a rifle for hunting. You have to register and be licensed. But automatics are banned Pistols are banned and even rocket launchers. if nobody had guns then you would not need one for protection. and with bolt action rifles it would take a long time to shoot a bunch of people. How many nut cases out there are running lose with very dangerous weapons?? Its frightening. Well Ive had my say. regards Moon
I totally agree with yoou, Moon. I think that is too easy to get a gun in USA as saw in a movie called Bowling fo Columbine, i was chocked that there are some persons who defend that it's good to have guns in home to defend their selfs from thiefs and such... i hate guns i wish that there was not a single gun in the world not even for hunting, i hate hunters... whow can someone have fun by killing poor animals??? where i live some persons get shoted by hunters and some kids get killed while playing with their father guns... but at least it's hard to get a license to have guns....
I agree with you vega. I used to go shooting when I was young. Still regret it to this day. I love animals, and killing them is no fun. If I had my choice Nobody would own a gun. My sims live a happy life and they don'y need guns regards moon
I like your country's gun rules, Odinmoon. Maybe mine will wake up and follow your example. I've said for years that's what was needed. There's no need for anyone to own a handgun.
When I was fifteen I was at a party and two gate crashers arrived. They were asked to leave. The got very angry and started a fight. They were physically removed. They came back an hour later with a gun and a crowbar. The guy with the gun just started shooting people and the guy with the bar started to hit them after they had been shot. My friend who had a broken leg at the time could not run. He was killed and others were critically injured. They then left. They were arrested and charged. I was lucky to jump a six foot fence and hide under the next door neighbors house. But I'm glad that nobody had a gun to defend us. If they did they may have shot the guys OR may have missed and shot other Innocent people. I worked in security for a few years as a body guard. I always took into consideration. If I use the gun I might accidentally shoot through the person and hit someone els. I left the job because of this dilemma. I have seen with my own eyes the destruction a gun can do to a person. I don't like to talk about this much. But maybe it will make some people think twice before purchasing such a dangerous Toy. regards Moon
that is really sad guns are really danger, and situations like that are very common everywhere i feel sorry about your friend
You know what. Blaming guns for these crimes is just like blaming the video games and movies - it's not the gun's fault that it was used for a bad purpose. It's the person that pulled the triggers fault - nothing elses. Besides an out right banning will not work. The criminals will still be able to get a hold of them through something called criminal connections, or the black market. They also aren't going to register their weapons, nor are they going to give a dang about following a law and get them legally (obviously). All the gun control does is ruin the right to bear firearms for the good, non-insane, citizens. They have to jump through all of these government hoops just to get something to protect their family from thugs that may break into their house, or try to rob them while walking around town. I have been around guns all my life and have learned common sense with these things. Never, ever, have I thought of turning them on a fellow human or been stupid enough to shoot at someone to "scare" them either. I mean, really, think about it: The one thing that a majority of people fear is death. If a robber were to break into multiple houses I'm pretty sure that they'd choose the ones without the possibility of them being shot were (the houses without guns) versus one where they know the owner is an avid gun owner. Also, if we're going to ban guns simply because some crazies use them for bad then why don't we also ban knives. Seriously, knives are everywhere and I see many more knifing-related injuries here than with guns. Anyone can get a knife, no questions asked, and hide it in their jacket. Kids have access to knives in their own kitchen which could be a danger too. My point is if they start getting rid of our freedoms simply because of a few bad apples then we're going to lose more as other people decide what is dangerous and what is not for us. Aren't we intelligent enough to make up our own minds about what we want in our house or not? Why don't countries just be adults about it and train their citizens about the Dos and Don'ts of firearm safety, and allow them to carry pieces if they choose to do so - and crack down severely on those who go out and murder with them.
I can hear where you are coming from. However I disagree. Here we have also banned knifes to minors. A kid with a knife cannot kill 30 kids. If I was going to rob someone and guns were legal and I knew they had a gun I would shoot them first. People can get guns on the black market but not every crazy person has access to the market. There is a good chance that you might be pulled over buy a cop and a dog who might find the gun on you. Here thats a good prison term. Farmers are still allowed to carry them, but not automatics, machine guns or pistols. Gun clubs are still allowed to use pistols, they have to be registered with the police and licensed. It is impossible to ban all guns. However they can be managed by size, type and who is allowed to carry them. regards Moon
As a future wife to a police officer...AMEN!!!!!!! Statistically crime has gone down in cities that allow their citizens to carry hand guns. That's all I'm going to say about it as Brandon is much better at arguing these facts then I am. But I agree with you 100% Solid Snake.
Whilst I appreciate Solid's post and can see it makes sense, I have to say that I disagree and I feel that there should be restrictions on access to guns. I agree with what Odinmoon said - 'I can hear where you are coming from. However I disagree. Here we have also banned knifes to minors. A kid with a knife cannot kill 30 kids. If I was going to rob someone and guns were legal and I knew they had a gun I would shoot them first. People can get guns on the black market but not every crazy person has access to the market. There is a good chance that you might be pulled over buy a cop and a dog who might find the gun on you. Here thats a good prison term. Farmers are still allowed to carry them, but not automatics, machine guns or pistols. Gun clubs are still allowed to use pistols, they have to be registered with the police and licensed. It is impossible to ban all guns. However they can be managed by size, type and who is allowed to carry them.' I know it's the person who kills people, not the gun. However, I don't like the idea of guns being readily available and prevalent in society. Yes, knives are dangerous too but like moon said, a kid can't kill 30 people at once with a knife. If guns are the norm in society, it provides the opportunity for many unstable people to cause a lot of harm. The gun would represent power and control to that person, where they may feel they have none in their life. I know that if someone really wanted a gun, they would find the black market. However, if guns were not accessible easily, I would think it would reduce the amount of impulsive violence. I can see both sides to this issue of guns, but if I have to step off the fence and fall on one side, I would choose the side where guns are less accessible and have restrictions.
Further to the preceding arguments against Snake's armed citizenry argument, the problem os gun control is not that criminals can obtain guns illegally whatever the legal status of guns. The real problem here is one of people with serious mental-health issues being able legally to obtain guns. The argument for gun controls stipulates that is axiomatic that it is not possible to sucessfully diagnose the degree of an applicant's psychosis, in order to prevent VTs, Colombines, Hungerfords and Dunblanes ... worse it would utterly impossible to know if a totally sane gun applicant might one day have a child (or house guest ... or thief ) who might be nutty enough to take the gun(s) anyway. The proponents of gun controls also stipulate that guns in open society are utterly unneccessary. Guns are weapons of offense not defence. The only possible purpose for drawing a gun is with the intention to kill. Unfortunatly a lot of those who carry guns do not appreciate this. They, wrongly, feel that pointing a gun at an assailant represents a defence. It is not. It is a deadly form of brinkmanship no different than an old-fashioned duel; the subtext being: stand down and lower your weapon because I'm a good guy and I won't shoot ya in the back. This may work for law officers (*nods at Shana and Brandon*) but it is dangerous, ever to assume that same could work for confontrations between citizens ... including homeowner vs housebreaker. If the self-protection argument is flawed, the remaining plank in the pro-gun lobbyist's soapbox is the hunting argument. On a planet where wildlife is fast disappearing the wholesale easy slaughter of wild critters by super-accurate high-velocity rifles fitted with better telescope sights than Galileo used to discover Jupiter's moon is just nuts. Why not use bows and arrows and skillful stalking? The personal reward would be substantively greater than offing a magnificent 7 point buck from inside dense brush at a half-mile range. People who have a desperate need to point and shoot firearms should seek employment in public services that need the services of people willing to put their own lives on the line: the military and the police.
I personally know of two families who owned guns and had their houses broken into. Thieves broke into their houses in order to steal the guns. Obviously, the thieves chose a time when no one was home to stop them. Don't kid yourself. If you own guns, word gets around, and you attract the attention of the bad guys. I hear people defending guns all the time, and I always wonder why? What is this obsession with guns? I absolutely don't get it. For defense? Against whom? Wild indians? Wild FBI agents? The drug addict who wants your watch? What on earth does the NRA imagine would have happened at VT if other students had carried guns to class? Wyatt Earp and the OK corral? Hollywood has romanticized the American west in the 1800s, but it was NOT a good place for anyone. Life was cheap and good people died too easily. A truly civilized country would not want to return to those days.
Actually, I'm a bit fragile today and didn't want to voice my opinion too strongly in the face of a well thought out post by Solid, and it's certainly nothing personal. However, I'm not sitting on the fence at all - I'm firmly planted on the anti-gun side, no mistake about it.
I totally agree with all these against post. I'm still glad to hear both sides of the story and appreciate freedom of speech. I think that it is good whether you are for or against to have your say. Without fear of upsetting someone. As long as it is polite. regards moon
You can argue all you want for a well-educated populace that knows how to handle guns, etc., but you're talking about an ideal world, which is not the one we live in. We can't even seem to teach everyone to read and write or even drive a car properly. In my mind, the well-educated gun owning populace argument is unrealistic. I stand by my initial argument. No one needs to own a handgun, and certainly not a semiautomatic weapon. A rifle or shotgun should work just fine for home protection or hunting. What about when you're walking around, you ask? Well, in order for a handgun to be effective against an assailant you have to be willing to use it. As in kill someone. Most people are not killers. The reality is, if you're confronted by someone who is willing to kill you chances are they'll be able to overpower you and use your weapon against you while you're still trying to work up the nerve. Carry mace, for crying out loud, or a tazer. You don't need a gun. Semi automatic weapons are jut a bad idea. Period. If you don't believe gun control will work look at the statistics. Every country with proper gun control has gun deaths that number maybe a hundred or two at the most each year in the entire country, and that's a high estimate. That's the murder rate for an average sized city here. The only places where more people die from gun deaths than in the U.S. is in countries that are at war. Odin's right. Pretty hard for someone to kill more than a couple of people with a knife before someone overpowers them. If only criminals have guns it'll be pretty easy to spot 'em, don't you think? No need to wait for them to commit a crime, owning the gun would be enough.
Here we go again. Another loony or two. Police said the mall shooter used "a long gun" and would not clarify whether it was an assault rifle or shotgun. The incident came almost two weeks after a Virginia Tech university student killed 32 people and then himself in the worst mass shooting in modern US history. Very Sad.
