I think Kerry is just a politican who's is just lying on everything. Just look at how he's being critized about being changing sides multiple times on issues. If he is being like that right now, I don't want to know what will happen when he becomes president.
Wow Josh, brave post (sorry just having a wouldn't want to be in your shoes moment)! Naturally of course, since I don't live in your country - I choose not to pass judgement on who should be in power. Surfice to say, I would dearly LOVE it [since the US is classed as a superpower], if other countries got a share in voting who your president is - after all policies the US undertakes affect us all. Remember our news media is quite different to what you recieve. Umm and yeah solidsnake not sure where you got the whole "yep we found WOMD" from - are you in the secret service and know something the rest of the world doesn't? Also bookworm...terrorism has always existed and always will (before and after Bush is long gone), it's just that the US only realised it existed when it landed on their own doorstep. At one stage the American colonies who were fighting for independence from the English monachy were classed as terrorists. Remember one man's terrorist, is another man's freedom fighter. My question to you all is this: Why do you think terrorists 'bombed' or dislike America so much?
Wouldn't it be nice if we all lived in a country where the person who leads the nation has no personal agenda, is exactly what he seems to be and his only interest is to protect, inspire and to do his all out best for all people? Unfortunately, this is the real world. Let's face it, when we vote, it'll be for the lesser of two evils. The only perfect man ascended to heaven long ago, the rest of us are just trying to get there. There is no perfect candidate because there is no perfet man. I still don't know who to vote for. Both candidates have good and bad qualities - I'm leaning towards Bush right now. But come November who knows! Nanshi - good question. They say they attacked a godless nation, a nation filled with infidels etc, etc., I don't know about anyone else but when I pray, its not to any empty throne! Peace out! gotta go to work
Yes, well all politicians lie (or are deceitful) to push their agendas, and that DOES include Bush, not just Kerry. Also, when you weigh up how much Bush has lied so far, and the gravity of his fabrications, as opposed to Kerry...
I just pray that whoever is elected as president will do their best to serve the country, and the people's needs... I mean, for cryin' out loud... enough is enough... I never realized how important money is to all these people... and if it jeapordizes the well being of the american people, than how wrong is that?.... well anyways, I just hope things work out... ...that is until judgement day... *ponders*
Mattho, couldn't agree more - there is no such thing as a honest politician MY COMMENT: I have seen a lot of talk through this chat about war & religion, which is why I entered the discussion. Religion may be one reason, but not THE major reason. I wish to remind you that it is Americans/America that are particularly disliked, not just their religion (although George Bush Jnrs earlier comments of a 'crusade' really didn't help). Could I point out that there are other predominately Christian countries in the world [including New Zealand I might add) that don't attract the vitriolic that America does. Why is that? You can't say it is merely because of religion, that would simply be nave. This has a lot more to do with (historical) politics than religion. And a different version of political events than what is being fed to us by our media. One useful thing (probably the only useful thing) I learned at university was, 'Don't believe everything you read.' When it comes to media I am fortunate to get a wide variety. As well as the comedy news channel CBS with Dan Rathers stand-up comedy routine, I also get CNN, BBC, Sky news plus three national news channels - and this is just television! But hey if I sat here and told you why, you would just sit and say (hopefully!) where is your evidence, babe? So instead I will direct you to alternative news sources (and I am not referring to some left wing wacko news press either but some award winning journos and well respected academics). There are a number of publications and documentarys out there (and plu-eze not just Michael Moore, for petes sake!) that detail better than I ever could, the reason for anti-America/nism. Journalists like Robert Fisk (currently in Baghdad), John Pilger, and political commentators like the excellent (American) Noam Chomsky et al. John Pilger lists in this article a few books that I havent as yet read (but will try to pick up before this weekend) that might also be of use. http://pilger.carlton.com/print/133305 John Pilger's documentary on the war on terror "Breaking the Silence" is also available FREE online - a recommended viewing http://informationclearinghouse.info/article4848.htm. Trust me, this is something that you would never see Dan Rather do.
I saw this somewhere....Bush's resume. Subject: Bush Resume RESUME George W. Bush The White House, USA EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE: LAW ENFORCEMENT: I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available. I was previously only arrested two other times for destruction of university property, and theft of an 8 foot high wreath from the front of a hotel, but daddy got me out of those. [size=+1] MILITARY: I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam. COLLEGE: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader. PAST WORK EXPERIENCE: I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock. I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. With the help of my father and our right-wing friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas. ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS: I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America. I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money. I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history. With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing by over 500,000 votes. ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT: I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record. I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week. I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S. Treasury. I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history. I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period. I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period. I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues every month. I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her. I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President. I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations. My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. History, Enron. My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision. I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history. I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed. I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history. I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts. I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history. I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States government. I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history. I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission. I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law. I refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention. I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. election). I set the record for fewest number of press conferences of any President since the advent of television. I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period. After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history. I garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history. I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did! so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. citizens, and the world community. I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families -- in war time. In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq, then blamed the lies on our British friends. I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security. I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD. I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice. RECORDS AND REFERENCES: All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view. All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view. All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review. PLEASE CONSIDER MY EXPERIENCE WHEN VOTING IN 2004. PLEASE SEND THIS TO EVERY VOTER YOU KNOW. [/size]
My, that is a nasty resume...I'm sure some website has a nasty one for Kerry too.... I'd just like to respond to Nanshi's comment: "Also bookworm...terrorism has always existed and always will (before and after Bush is long gone), it's just that the US only realised it existed when it landed on their own doorstep." I agree that this is probably a true comment and I think that the same thing could be said of Canada. We have allowed our immigration policies to be very slack and have let people, who traffic in terrorism, to become Canadian citizens. However, the people in power who legislate immigration, refuse to acknowledge their complicity in this and pass the buck constantly instead of tightening their policies on background searches, etc. I foresee an attack in my country that would shake up their apathy but it will come too late for those killed just like in America. Look at the security precautions that Israel takes because of their long exposure to terrorism and that is what I fear the world is going to come to unless these terrorists clue in. Until that time, (unlikely as it is!), are we to just ignore the terrorists and let them go on killing innocent people and not try to stop them? Maybe you didn't mean to imply that we should do nothing to stop evil in the world but that is the way that I'm reading this comment...and as far as the American revolutionaries being the "terrorists" of their day, I think that is going too far because they were not killing innocents (women and children) without warning. They were fighting an army that knew that they were under attack. Even the Japanese who launched that surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, that was internationally denounced at the time, did so against a Military target not a civilian one!! I would also like to interject a comment about the WofMD...I don't know whether Bush was misinformed by his intelligence guys or not but I heard on a Canadian news program (this is within the past 6 months) that even if there were no weapons now they had existed in the past because there were reports out of Jordan and some other border country with Iraq that before the Americans went in there, Saddam had shipped disassembled weapons to their countries as recyclible (spelling?) material....sounds like a cover-up by Saddam to me...besides if no chemical weapons, for example, existed why were Saddam's men provided with chemical suits for their protection? It is a known fact that supplies of them were found? It's stories like this that make one think that "where there's smoke, there's a fire"....but that's just my opinion.... I agree that the Americans can be disliked because of some of their policies and that their policies affect the rest of the world but I find it rather hypocritical of some countries (e.g. Korea) denouncing the U.S. but then they are the first ones to come running with open hands for a handout when they have some disaster. I feel that the UN (who gets more money from the U.S.for their financial support than from any other country!) should also put their money where their mouth is...if they hate the U.S. and its policies so much, then why are they so quick to take U.S. money? Some of the world's complaining about the U.S. sounds like a typical family who has a rich uncle/aunt in the clan....everyone hates them for the way they hand out their money with strings attached but they are all quick to take the cash instead of walking away and saying, "no thanks, I'll pay my own way.".... And let's be honest: if you or I were handing out lots of our money, wouldn't we want some control of how it is spent? I enjoy little discussions about world situations but I find that they are so difficult in this media because probably 80 percent of human communication is non-verbal (body language, voice tone, etc.) and often one can be mis-read in a forum like this...one can be taken more seriously or more dogmatic than one intended, so I hope that all those in here who don't agree with me will not hold it against me...opinions are just a person's spin on issues based on our perception of them based on our upbringing/culture, etc...I hope that we can have more discussions in here on things that are not always "sim-related" without anyone disliking another for their political, etc. views...It's kinda like my family, I don't agree with my sister's opinions on politics/religion, etc. but I still love her. I don't get much time to be in here posting anymore so hope that all of you are doing well and I hope that you all have a great day!!
First, I can tell you that this is definitely a work of fiction or taking other items out of context. You can tell simply by the driving incident with the ticket. If the driving record is lost, how would one know he pled guilty, paid a fine, and had his license suspended for 30 days? Not to mention a quick Google search turns this up as a "Commentary". Commentaries generally have no factual basis, one sided, and are usually an opinion by the writer, and not the purpose of trying to enlighten us with revelating information.
Hello All Bookworm said "I agree that this is probably a true comment and I think that the same thing could be said of Canada. We have allowed our immigration policies to be very slack and have let people, who traffic in terrorism, to become Canadian citizens." This I can well believe since a lot of terrorists are actually trained by the U.S. Army at the School of Americas based in Georgia (terrorists such as Manuel Noriega (Panama); Vladimiro Montesinos (Peru); Gustavo Alvarez Martinez (Honduras) ; Roberto Viola (Argentina); Hugo Banzer (Bolivia); Guillermo Rodriguez (Ecuador); A great majority of the Contras and Hugo Roberto (Guatemala). No wonder you are 'crapping' yourself! "Look at the security precautions that Israel takes because of their long exposure to terrorism and that is what I fear the world is going to come to unless these terrorists clue in." Woah, don't get me started on Israel! Israel has an incredibly large arsenal of WMD (including nuclear) and as such is seen as one of the world's most advanced military and technological forces - not quite like the US's, but close (but it also boasts one of the largest gaps in income, property, capital, education, spending and poverty). It uses this force to subjugate the population in the territories it occupies. But my response here is not to address the conflict in Israel but to respond to your post. So I continue... Bookworm said "Until that time, (unlikely as it is!), are we to just ignore the terrorists and let them go on killing innocent people and not try to stop them? Maybe you didn't mean to imply that we should do nothing to stop evil in the world but that is the way that I'm reading this comment." Well I said "Also bookworm...terrorism has always existed and always will (before and after Bush is long gone), it's just that the US only realised it existed when it landed on their own doorstep. At one stage the American colonies that were fighting for independence from the English monarchy were classed as terrorists. Remember one man's terrorist, is another man's freedom fighter." Um, I reread my post and I saw absolutely no reference to me saying 'let the terrorists go for it' - not entirely sure how you read this, you obviously wanted to launch into a point which is fine by me, but please don't misquote me. Also what is classed as terrorist activity is debatable. For example: The US's terrorist activities in Nicaragua induced the latter to appeal to the World Court for relief. The World Court found in favour of Nicaragua and found the US guilty for unlawful use of force [read international terrorism]. It also ruled that the US military aid to the contra's as just that, 'military aid' not humanitarian aid, and therefore illegal. They were also ordered to pay reparation costs. Needless to say the US rejected the World Court ruling and in breach, continued to provide 'humanitarian' aid to the contra's. Nicaragua then went to the Security Council, who endorsed the ruling of the World Court, and the US vetoed the resolution. As a final recourse Nicaragua then went to the General Assembly, and they passed the resolution (with the US, Israel & El Salvador opposing). The reaction of the American politicians was to escalate their terrorist war and go after soft targets rather than military targets. Certainly many Nicaraguans (and outside observers) would class US activities as acts of terrorism - and in context of your comment above, should we be ignoring this? You also mentioned in a previous post (posted 07-28-2004, 04:52 AM) that "When I was in school the bully loved to hurt and harass the others until someone stronger or smarter fixed his "little red wagon"...such as this occurs in the world too..." Would you not say that the US as a superpower could be conceived off in this case as that bully? Bookworm said "...and as far as the American revolutionaries being the "terrorists" of their day, I think that is going too far because they were not killing innocents (women and children) without warning. They were fighting an army that knew that they were under attack." Although my familiarity with the American War of Independence is rather sketchy, on the flipside, I am sure that the Native American Indian population that existed at that time might disagree with you there. Bookworm said "I would also like to interject a comment about the WofMD...I don't know whether Bush was misinformed by his intelligence guys or not but I heard on a Canadian news program (this is within the past 6 months) that even if there were no weapons now they had existed in the past because there were reports out of Jordan and some other border country with Iraq that before the Americans went in there, Saddam had shipped disassembled weapons to their countries as recyclible (spelling?) material....sounds like a cover-up by Saddam to me...besides if no chemical weapons, for example, existed why were Saddam's men provided with chemical suits for their protection? It is a known fact that supplies of them were found? It's stories like this that make one think that "where there's smoke, there's a fire"....but that's just my opinion...." Of course there were WMD in Iraq (that has never been disputed), most of them were supplied by the US and Great Britain in the first place. But what the question really is about is where the weapons still there in 2000? John Pilger in an article he wrote for The Mirror has said that "the truth is that the Blair government has known, almost from the day it came to office in 1997, that Iraq's weapons of mass destruction were almost certainly destroyed following the 1991 Gulf War - just as Bush's weapons expert, David Kay, has now confirmed." I also believe like Pilger that "Bush hopes to cast himself as an innocent, aggrieved member of the public wanting to know why America's numerous spy agencies did not alert the nation to the fact, now confirmed by Bush's own weapons inspector, David Kay, that there were no weapons of mass destruction and probably weren't any since before the 1991 Gulf War, and that the premise for going to war was "almost all wrong"." Colin Powell himself stated in Feb 2001 (before the invasion) "he [Sadaam] has not developed any significant capability with respect to WMD, he is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours." Condoleezza Rice said prior to the invasion in July 2001 "We are able to keep arms from him, his military forces have not been rebuilt." Another justification put forward for the war was that there was an active cooperation between Iraq and Al Qaeda and that WMD would easily get passed between the two. There are many people who say that there is more than likely no link between Osama/Al Qaeda and Sadaam (Chomsky, Andew Wilkie former Australian Intelligence Officer, Former NATO commander General Wesley Clark etc), it is well known that Sadaam disliked Osama intensely, and would never had assisted in the 9/11 atrocities or had any dealings with Al Qaeda. Another question for you, why Iraq? If we accept the premise that there was no connection between Al Qaeda and Hussein, then why invade Iraq? (and really Sadaam may have been vicious but he wouldn't be stupid enough to give WMD to his enemy - who would then more than likely use them against him). And the justification for war is now the Iraqis are free to lead a democratic life? History suggests that most despotic regimes are often overthrown by internal revolt. However, the US couldn't afford to let the upraising fall into the hands of Iraqis who may well have remained 'independent' of the US. However this point is rendered moot anyway because of Bush's declaration that they would invade Iraq even if Sadaam and his cohort's were to leave the country. (Azores Summit, March 03). It has nothing to do with the freedom of Iraqis but what lies in their soil. And more worryingly most authors agree that the attack on Iraq would most likely increase worldwide terrorism, especially against British and American interests and citizens. (Pilger, Chomsky etc). My great concern is for the American public who are getting sold short. This war on terrorism is being used as a tool for US and UK business to obtain access to oil pipelines and now also unfortunately as an election campaigning tool. Every time I see the terrorist alert heightened in the US all I can think of, is "Oh Bush must be slipping in the polls." Don't get me wrong (before I am accused of this) Sadaam Hussein is (or soon will be a 'was') an incredibly evil, sadistic, vicious butcher and personally deserves no less, and yes he should be held accountable for his actions. However, I resent the fact that up to 55,000 Iraqis, including 9,600 civilians (from the initial 'shock and awe' bombing campaign) had to die for oil. Over 700 Iraqis have died this month alone - and these statistics are based only on the period leading up to the 10th of August! (Fisk, August 2004) Bookworm said "I agree that the Americans can be disliked because of some of their policies and that their policies affect the rest of the world but I find it rather hypocritical of some countries (e.g. Korea) denouncing the U.S. but then they are the first ones to come running with open hands for a handout when they have some disaster." Sorry could you please clarify, do you mean South or North Korea, and to which handout do you refer? Also wouldn't it be a great world if we would offer assistance to all in times of disaster no matter what race, religion, or idealogy - without any conditions? Surely if we are to class ourselves as a civilized society we would surely help our fellow person in a time of need? "I feel that the UN (who gets more money from the U.S. for their financial support than from any other country!) should also put their money where their mouth is...if they hate the U.S. and its policies so much, then why are they so quick to take U.S. money?" Could you please cite your source that says that they UN hates the United States and its policies please? As an addendum to this you might be interested to know that the UN is currently looking at alternative forms of funding, as funding from the big providers (US included) is often unreliable at best. Getting back to my point about threat to world peace. The Bush & Blair administrations alienation of the UN prior to the invasion of Iraq, has only served to make people fear America more than terrorists as a threat to work peace. Prior to the invasion of Iraq there was 10-15% world support for the 'allies' unilateral invasion of Iraq without UN backing. Time magazine did an informal poll that had 80% of respondents rate the US as the greatest threat to world peace. What might be of interest to you is that an opinion poll that was released prior to the US invasion of Iraq showed that 36% of Canadians viewed the US as the biggest threat to world peace, as against just 21% naming Al Qaeda. If I may quote Noam Chomsky here, for Osama bin Laden this must be "a victory beyond his wildest dreams." "I enjoy little discussions about world situations but I find that they are so difficult in this media because probably 80 percent of human communication is non-verbal (body language, voice tone, etc.) and often one can be mis-read in a forum like this...one can be taken more seriously or more dogmatic than one intended, so I hope that all those in here who don't agree with me will not hold it against me." If you feel you question any points I have put forward here then I would be more than happy to supply you with a list of recommended reading (over and above what I have listed above). Like you, I also enjoy debating world politics, and although I agree that non-verbal communication is a predominant form of communication (although looking someone directly in the eye in one culture is classed as an insult in another - so differences do exist), I feel that it is quite easy to put across differing points of views quite easily in this forum, and I relish these sorts of debates.
Well said, nanchi_nibble. I bet a poll would also favor Kerry over Bush. (Unless ManagerJosh selectively bans )
John F. Kerry missed 72% of 119 recorded votes held in 2003 on issues President Bush had taken a position on according to Congressional Quarterly. Fellow Massachusetts senator Teddy "Chappaquidick" Kennedy missed only 3% of these votes. 1: Procedural Motion - Adjourn to Time Certain 2: FY 2003 Approp.s - Homeland Security 3: FY 2003 Approp.s - Homeland Security 4: FY 2003 Approp.s - Education Block Grants 5: FY 2003 Approp.s - Education Funding 6: FY 2003 Approp.s - Rural Antidrug Program 7: FY 2003 Approp.s - Spending Reinstatement 8: FY 2003 Approp.s - Foreign Cruise Ships 13: Ridge Nomination - Confirmation 14: FY 2003 Approp.s - Unemployment Ins. 15: FY 2003 Approp.s - Drought Relief 16: FY 2003 Approp.s - Drought Relief 17: FY 2003 Approp.s - African Famine Relief 18: FY 2003 Approp.s - US AirPension Plan 26: FY03 Approp.s - Prohibit Quotas Job Priv. 31: Adams Nomination - Confirmation 32: Otero Nomination - Confirmation 33: Junell Nomination - Confirmation 36: Procedural Motion - Require Attendance 37: Procedural Motion - Require Attendance 39: Pledge of Allegiance - Adoption 44: Frost Nomination - Confirmation 45: Partial-Birth Abor. Ban - Emer. Contracep.s 46: Partial-Birth Abor. Ban - Health Exception 47: Partial-Birth Abor. Ban - Motion to Commit 49: Partial-Birth Abor. Ban - Health Exception 50: Quarles Nomination - Confirmation 51: "Partial-Birth" Abortion Ban - Passage 52: Varlan Nomination - Confirmation 53: Estrada Nomination - Cloture 54: Bybee Nomination - Confirmation 55: Breen Nomination - Confirmation 60: FY 2004 Budget Res. - Education Funding 109: Coalition Member Support - Adoption 110: Military Tax Breaks - Passage 111: Selna Nomination - Confirmation 112: Springmann Nomination - Confirmation 114: Estrada Nomination - Cloture 115: FY 2003 War Supplemental - Port Security 116: FY 03 War Supp. - Nat'l. Guard & Reserves [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]117: FY 03 War Suppl. - Aircraft Missile Def. 118: FY 03 War Suppl. - Ind. Member Projects 119: FY 03 War Suppl. - Counterterror Funding 120: FY 03 War Suppl. - Homeland Security 121: FY 2003 War Supplemental - War Costs 122: FY 03 War Suppl. - First Respr. Funding 123: FY 03 War Suppl. - First Respr. Funding 124: FY 03 War Suppl. - Iraqi Food Assistance 125: FY 2003 War Supplemental - Passage 126: Carney Nomination - Confirmation 132: Protections for Children - Conf. Report 133: Swimmer Nomination - Confirmation 135: Sutton Nomination - Confirmation 139: Cook Nomination - Confirmation 140: Estrada Nomination - Cloture 141: Altonaga Nomination - Confirmation 145: FISA Warrants - Feinstein Substitute 146: FISA Warrants - Passage 147: Tax Reductions - On-Budget Surplus 180: Global AIDS Relief - Abstinence Programs 181: Global AIDS Relief - Drug Pricing 182: Global AIDS Relief - AIDS Orphans 183: Global AIDS Relief - Aid to Carib. Nations 184: Hicks Nominat. - Confirm. 185: FY 04 Def. Auth. - Reservist Health Care 186: FY 04 Def. Auth. - Nucl. Weapons Study 187: FY 04 Def. Auth. - Nucl. Weapons Study 188: FY 04 Def. Auth. - Nucl. Weapons Study 189: FY04 Def. Auth. - Nucl. Pen. Weapons 192: FY'04 Defense Auth. - Overseas Abortions 193: FY 2004 Defense Auth. - Def. Contracts 194: FY 2004 Defense Authorization - Passage 195: Callahan Nomination - Confirmation 202: Debt Limit Increase - Passage 203: Energy Policy - Ethanol Requir. Exclusion 204: Energy Policy - Ethanol Requir. Exclusion 205: FY 2004 Defense Authoriz. - Base Closures 206: Energy Policy - Ethanol Requir. Exclusion 211: Chertoff Nomination - Confirmation 216: Greer Nomination - Confirmation 217: Kravitz Nomination - Confirmation 218: Energy Policy - Energy Commodity Trading 219: Energy Policy - Indian Energy Projects 220: Myanmar Sanctions - Passage 223: FY 2004 FAA Reauth. - Pilot Age Req. 224: "" "" - Foreign Repair Stations 225: FY 2004 FAA Reauthorization - Passage 226: Pate Nomination - Confirmation PDB (Prescription Drug Benefit) 227: PDB - Within Medicare 228: PDB - Drug Cost Disclosure 229: PDB - Premium Cap 230: PDB - Drug Patents 231: Amer. History, Civics Academies - Passage [/font] [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]232: PDB - Drug Importation 233: PDB - Third-Party Coverage 234: PDB - Open Enrollment Period 235: PDB - Canadian Price Equity 236: PDB - Cost Sharing Extension 237: PDB - Congressional Coverage 238: PDB - Two-Year Fallback Plan 239: PDB - Benefit Availability 240: PDB - Drug Cost Coverage 241: PDB - Employer Compensation 242: PDB - Health Centers 243: PDB - Drug Advertisements 244: PDB- Premium Reduction 245: PDB - Durbin Substitute 246: PDB - Cost-Effectiveness Studies 247: PDB - Disability Services 248: PDB - Drug Advertisements 249: PDB - Cancer Care 250: PDB - Cancer Patient Coverage 251: PDB - Asset Test 252: PDB - Alzheimer's Subsidy 253: PDB - Additional Disease Treatment 254: PDB - Premium Reduction 255: PDB - Experimental Drug Coverage 256: PDB - Immigrant Coverage 257: PDB - Retiree Coverage 258: PDB - Medigap Policies 259: PDB - Retiree Fallback Plan 260: PDB - Alternative Plan 261: PDB - Means Test 262: PDB - Passage 263: Campbell Nomination - Confirmation 264: Medical Malpractice - Cloture 265: Wolski Nomination - Confirmation 266: Child Tax Credit - Motion to Proceed SDR: FY 2004 State Dept. Reauthorization 267: SDR - Mexico City Policy 269: SDR - Unemployment Insurance 270: SDR - HIV/AIDS Funding LBA: FY 2004 Legislative Branch Appropriations [/font] [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]272: LBA - AmeriCorps 273: LBA Legislative Branch App. - Passage 274: FY'04 Military Construction App. - Passage 275: Der-Yeghiayan Nomination - Confirmation 276: Suko Nomination - Confirmation DA: FY 2004 Defense Appropriations 277: FY 2004 DA - Troop Deployments 278: DA - Cost of Iraq Operations 279: DA - Military Detainees 280: Myanmar Sanctions - Passage 281: DA - Iraq War Costs 282: DA - Military Health Care 283: DA- Iraqi Reconstruction 284: DA - Iraqi Intel. Commission 285: DA - Unauthorized Approp.s 286: DA - Overseas Military Funding 287: DA - Intel. Funding 288: DA - HIV/AIDS Funding 289: Duncan Nomination - Confirmation 290: FY'04 Def. Approp. - Passage HSA: FY'04 Homeland Sec'ty Appropriations 291: HSA - Approp.s Increase 292: HSA - Law Enforcement Costs 293: HSA - Emer. Mgmt. Planning Grants 294: HSA - Port Security 295: HSA - Explosive Device 296: HSA - Firefighter Grants 297: HSA - Chemical Plant Sec. 298: HSA - Canadian Border Sec. 299: HSA - First Responder Funding 300:HSA - Maritime Security 301: HSA - High-Threat Urban Areas 302: HSA - High-Threat Urban Areas 303: HSA - Federal Advisory Boards 304: HSA - Transit Security 305: HSA - Lobbying Restrictions 306: HSA - Passage 307: Yeakel Nomination - Confirmation 308: Owen Nomination - Cloture 309: Energy Policy - Fuel Economy Standards 310: Energy Policy - Fuel Economy Standards 311: Energy Policy - Price Manipulation 312: Estrada Nomination - Cloture 313: Energy Policy - Utility Mergers 314: Energy Policy - Standard Market Design 315: Energy Policy - Internal Transactions 316: Pryor Nomination - Cloture 317: Energy Policy - Passage 318: U.S.-Singapore Trade - Passage 319: U.S.-Chile Trade - Passage 320: Cohn Nomination - Confirmation 321: Montalvo Nomination - Confirmation LHSA: FY'04 Labor-HHS-Edu Approp. 322: LHSA: - Hispanic Edu. Prog.s 323: LHSA: - Impact Aid 324: LHSA: - IDEA Funding 325: LHSA: - Job Training 326: LHSA: - Rural Edu. Grants 327: Colloton Nomination - Confirmation 328: LHSA: - Bioterr. Workforce 329: LHSA: - School Construction 330: LHSA: - Title I Funding 331: LHSA: - Higher Education 332: LHSA: - HIV/AIDS Funding 333: LHSA: - Head Start 336: LHSA: - LIHEAP Assist. 339: LHSA: - Fin. Aid Eligibility 340: LHSA: - After-school Progr.s 341: LHSA: - Safe Child./Fam. Prom. 342: LHSA: - Education Funding 343: LHSA: - Teacher Quality Progr.s 344: LHSA: - After School Progr.s 345: LHSA: - W. Nile/Mosquito Control 346: LHSA: - NIH Funding 347: LHSA: - Passage MOR: Media Ownership Rule 348: MOR Disapproval - Passage EWA: FY 2004 Energy/Water Appropriations 349: EWA - Adv. Nucl. Weapons 350: EWA - Passage 351: Partial-Birth Abortion Ban: ..... - Disagree to House Amend. 352: Proctor Nomination - Confirmation 353: Feuerstein Nomination - Confirmation 354: Conrad Nomination - Confirmation 355: Floyd Nomination - Confirmation IA: FY 2004 Interior Appropriations 356: IA - Indian Health Service 357: Gibson Nomination - Confirmation 358: IA - National Mall Ad Ban 359: IA - Judicial Review of Timber Sales 360: IA - Competitive Sourcing Annual Rept. 361: IA - Compet. Sourcing Rev. Prohibition 362: IA - Indian Health Service Funding 363: Burns Nomination - Confirmation DA: FY 2004 Defense Appropriations 364: DA - Confereance Report 365: Do-Not-Call Registry - Passage 366: Sabraw Nomination - Confirmation 367: Mosman Nomination - Confirmation 368: Bea Nomination - Confirmation 369: Crone Nomination - Confirmation 370: White Nomination - Confirmation SIA: FY 2004 Suppl. for Iraq/Afghanistan 371: SIA - Iraqi Reconstruc. 376: SIA - Safety Equipment 377: Genetic Nondiscrimination - Passage 378: SIA - Iraqi Lib. Medal 379: SIA - Domestic Spending 380: SIA - Reconstr. Financing 381: SIA - Mil Res. Retire. Age 382: SIA - Addl Army Personnel 383: SIA - Congressional Report 384: SIA - Removal Of Saddam 398: SIA - Cong. Approval 401: Rodgers Nomination - Confirmation 403: Class Action Lawsuits - Cloture 404: Unsolicited E-Mail - Passage TTA: FY 2004 Trans.-Treas. Appropriations 405: TTA - Cuba Travel Ban 406: TTA - Congress'l. Pay Raises 407: TTA - Competitive Sourcing 408: TTA - Competitive Sourcing 409: TTA - Election Systems Overhaul 410: TTA - Passage 411: Fischer Nomination - Confirmation 412: Leavitt Nomination - Confirmation FOA: FY 2004 Foreign Operaions Approp. 413: FOA - State Dept. Reauth. 414: FOA - Coalition Prov. Auth. Funds 415: FOA - Forn Support for Hijackers FT: Forest Thinning 416: FT - Logging Projects 417:FT - Medical Monitoring Program 418: FT - Air Monitoring 419: Pickering Nomination - Cloture 421: FT - Fire Fighting Funds 422: FT - Fuel Management 423: FT - Judicial Review 424: FT - Fire Reduction Project Funds 425: FT - Old Growth Protection 426: FT - Environmental Impact Statements 427: FT - Title I Authorization 428: FT - Passage FOA: FY 2004 Foreign Operaions Approp. 429: FOA - HIV/AIDS Funding 430: FOA - Abstinence Programs 431: FOA - Global AIDS Initiative 432: FOA - Global AIDS Initiative IA: FY 2004 Interior Appropriations 433: IA - Conference Report CRO: Credit Reporting Overhaul 434: CRO - Affiliate Sharing 435: CRO - Data Mining AA: FY 2004 Agriculture Appropriations 436: AA - Energy Transparency 437: Credit Reporting Overhaul - Passage 438: Titus Nomination - Confirmation 439: AA - Electricity Market Manip. 440: AA - Crop Losses 441: Pryor Nomination - Cloture 442: AA - Conservation Reserve Prog. 443: AA - Country of Origin Labeling 444: AA - Passage 445: Syria Sanctions - Passage DA: FY 2004 Defense Authorization 446: DA - Motion to Proceed 447: DA - Adoption 448: DA Approp.s - Adoption VAHA: FY 2004 VA-HUD Appropriations 449: VAHA - Clean Water Fund 450: Owen Nomination - Cloture 451: Kuhl Nomination - Cloture 452: Brown Nomination - Cloture 453: FY 2004 FAA Reauth. - Cloture 454: Dorr Nomination - Cloture 455: Dorr Nomination - Cloture 456: Energy Policy - Cloture 459: Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit - Conference Report [/font]
Just so you know... I have voted in favor of higher taxes 350 times I have voted against the Reagan tax cuts during a strong recession (the cuts were passed and provided 7 years of economic boom creating over 20 million jobs) I have voted against the Bush tax cuts during recession (the cuts were passed and also created 1.5 million jobs in 10 months and stimulated the economy) I stated that "any senator that voted against the $87 billion to fund our troops in Iraq would be turning his back on them." Then I vote against it. I voted against the first gulf war that had a 14 to 0 U.N approval but to seize political opportunity I voted for the second gulf war without U.N... approval. Not risking the lives of our soliders to defend the country but to make me look more "middle of the road". I consider terrorists such as Yasir Arafat to be statesman. I once said that our army should be completely controlled by the U.N. My Kerry amendment to cut intelligence funding by $6 billion dollars during the cold war was so liberal not even my buddy Ted Kennedy could vote for it. I voted for a nuclear freeze during the cold war arms race (the race was a major part in the fall of the Soviet Union.) I voted for a 50 cent tax raise per gallon of gasoline. I support programs that keep more qualified workers from getting jobs I have been the most anti-2nd amendment rights senator in U.S history I said taxes should not be raised during a downturn but after the Bush cuts started to work I quickly pushed for a tax raise Partial birth abortions good- death penalty for terrorists bad I voted against the Laci Peterson law that protects pregnant women from violence (so much for my women's rights platform) I have a lifetime rating of 25 out of 100 by citizens against government waste. (Edwards even worse than me with a 13) I am against preventing frivolous lawsuits that raise the cost of healthcare. I said Ronald Reagan was too tough on terrorists. (you know those guys aren't so bad) I proposed an amendment to cut intelligence funding by $1.5 billion during the War on Terror. I voted against using apache helicopters and stealth bombers. I voted to cut $300 million form intelligence after the first world trade tower attack again after USS Cole attack and again after African embassy attacks. I voted against prohibiting the burning of the American flag. I have voted against a balanced budget amendment five times. (three times it called for lower spending) I voted against eliminating the marriage penalty, an extra tax on people just for being married. I voted for the largest tax increase in the history of the United States. I voted against the defend America act of 1996 that would effectively protect US soil from ballistic missile attacks. I like riding in SUV's, private jets, limos..etc... but you shouldn't do that I think we should get rid of the dept of agriculture My campaign promises will cost you an extra $1.9 trillion dollars (but ill tell you it only cost $658 billion) I voted against welfare work reform that helps people on welfare obtain a job I said I was proud of the fact that john Edwards and I voted against the $87 billion to support our troops I missed 2/3 of senate votes while campaigning (but i can still criticize the president for taking vacations even though I take 66% percent time off, right?) My actions have endangered the lives of U.S... soldiers in every war since vietnam. I am the most liberal senator in the U.S senate (Edwards number 4) I have flip-flopped on over 50 key issues (some more than once) I said that the danger of Al Qaeda has been exagerated and Al Qaeda is not as bad as we think. I have continualy supported communists governments. I have a lifetime F rating from the National Taxpayers Union I believe countries countries involved in the oil-for-food scandal should have a part in the rebuilding of a free Iraq I take advantage of tax loopholes to prevent paying for the social programs I support. better your money than mine (Edwards does it too) I consistently vote against technology upgrades for our military Vietnam I backed the People's Peace Treaty, written in Communist East Germany, which called for the removal of U.S. Forces PRIOR to the return of POW/MIAs. North Vietnams top General, Gen. Giap, credits the VVAW with helping him win the war in his memoirs stating "if it weren't for organizations like Kerry's Vietnam Veterans Against the War, Hanoi would have surrendered to the U.S." POW's, including John McCain, report VVAW activities and My own statements were used against them during their torturous interrogations. 1992 in defense of Bill Clinton's Draft Dodging: "I am saddened that Vietnam has yet again been inserted into the campaign." (Yes it's sad when this happens isn't it John) I testified, and met with Communist Vietnam delegates in Paris in 1971. Providing Aid and Comfort to an enemy engaged against U.S. forces is treason. I was part of an anti-vietnam war group that actually voted on assassinating U.S congressman. I pushed for regular trade with Vietnam I tried to erase the possibility that POW's were still alive in vietnam by shredding documents preventing leaks and declassifications of materials. I went on speaking tours with Jane Fonda who gave funds and goods to North Vietnam directly aiding their cause and directly caused the tourture of U.S. POW's
Iraq War Reasons for war After the first Gulf War Iraq was to let U.N weapon inspectors inspect Iraq's weapons facilities without interference. Weapons inspector frequently inspected Iraq's weapons programs until 1998 http://cns.miis.edu/research/iraq/uns_chro.htm. It wasn't until 9/11 that the United States continued to force cooperation between Iraq and weapons inspectors. After 9/11 Iraq violated 17 U.N resolutions, this alone gave the United States a legal and moral justification to use military force against Iraq. By early 2003 President Bush had this on the table. Iraq violated 17 U.N resolutions, the CIA, British M6 intelligence, and Russian intelligence all said that Sadam has WMD's, and Sadam has many connections to the terror network responsible for 9/11 http://www.techcentralstation.com/092503F.html. If you are the president and you know all this tell me that you don't take action. If you are the president are you going to let Iraq violate resolution after resolution while the rest of the world fears what he may be doing and hiding? The British Iraq intelligence committee stated that they had enough intelligence to make "well-founded" judgement that Sadam was seeking to illegally obtain Uranium from Niger. We know that Sadam used weapons of mass destruction on Iran and his own people. Do you think that Sadam really was not seeking these weapons and once he got them do you think he would target the United States? Do you think the world is not better off with Sadam out of power? If Bush would have waited not pre-emptively striking but waiting until Iraq was an imminent threat there would have been a much greater loss of life than we had now. Continue to support our troops and remember the soliders that have died in this war no doubt saved the lives of so many others. Bush Lied? Since we did not find the stockpile of WMD's that U.S intelligence and multiple other countries intelligence said Sadam had the desperate for power, wack-job left has resorted to calling Bush a liar and creating ridiculous conspiracy theories on why the U.S went to war with Iraq. More and more evidence has been surfacing of WMD's that were in Iraq including dismantled Iraqi weapons facilities in Jordan, Netherlands, and Turkey and traces of WMD's a being found in Iraq. SEN. JOHN KERRY: "t is something that we know-for instance, Saddam Hussein has used weapons of mass destruction against his own people, and there is some evidence of their efforts to try to secure these kinds of weapons and even test them." We know for a fact that Sadam had these weapons and used them before. We know he was trying to get them. and what do you think he was going to do with them: From a newspaper owned by Sadam's son Uday printed this after 9/11 "use all means-and they are numerous-against the aggressors...and considering everything American as a military target, including embassies, installations, and American companies, and to create suicide/martyr [fidaiyoon] squads to attack American military and naval bases inside and outside the region, and mine the waterways to prevent the movement of war ships..." and Sadam said this in 2000 "The Arab people have not so far fulfilled their duties. They are called upon to target U.S. and Zionist interests everywhere and target those who protect these interests." Should this rouge regime not have been considered an enemy in the war on terror. 4 independent commisions directly stated that neither George W Bush or Tony Blair lied about information of WMD's but it was faulty information that was blamed. Each commision then went on to state in the report is that neither Bush or Blair forced intelligence to incriminate Iraq. The British Iraq intelligence commision stated that even without the finding of WMD's in Iraq the war was justified. But there it was in black and white Bush didn't lie and the war was justified. I don't know what goes through the mids of these wackos on left. Would Iraq and the rest of the world be better off with Sadam still in power. Dismantling this terrible regime should be one of the greatest accomplishments of our lifetime but instead the United States is being demonized by the left. When an American hero dies in Iraq saving the lives of thousands of people they blame Bush and not the enemy. Not realizing these terrorists that we are fighting want you dead just as much as they want our soliders dead. Remember who the enemy is.
Josh said Since we did not find the stockpile of WMD's that U.S intelligence and multiple other countries intelligence said Sadam had the desperate for power, wack-job left has resorted to calling Bush a liar and creating ridiculous conspiracy theories on why the U.S went to war with Iraq. Even though I am a wack-job leftist and a person who creates ridiculous theories about the war with Iraq, I feel that I should at least be able to defend my position, if that is alright with you, Josh? Let me continue without of course looking like some pinko lefto liberal (which I am sure was going to be the next sad clich that you were going to fire at me and my ilk). Sorry at this point I must also interject and say have you ever heard the adage attack the argument, not the [wo]man? Anyway I digress, lefto pinkos aside. I will continue. After the first Gulf War Iraq was to let U.N weapon inspectors inspect Iraq's weapons facilities without interference. Weapons inspector frequently inspected Iraq's weapons programs until 1998 http://cns.miis.edu/research/iraq/uns_chro.htm. It wasn't until 9/11 that the United States continued to force cooperation [my emphasis] between Iraq and weapons inspectors. After 9/11 Iraq violated 17 U.N resolutions, this alone gave the United States a legal and moral justification [my emphasis] to use military force against Iraq. Hey, I am the first to condemn Saddam for his failure to comply with the Security Council resolutions (however it may interest you to know that the US rejected the same resolutions helloany takers on Resolution 687 and Article 14????). At the risk of sounding like a wack-job leftist again, it also really didnt help that Washington used UNSCOM to spy on Iraq. Josh said By early 2003 President Bush had this on the table. Iraq violated 17 U.N resolutions, the CIA, British M6 intelligence, and Russian intelligence all said that Sadam has WMD's, and Sadam has many connections to the terror network responsible for 9/11 http://www.techcentralstation.com/092503F.html. Woah, right there. Ok, lets stop at this point. Although I am a wack-job leftist, even I look very closely at who sponsors a website of a quote I wish to cite in an international forum and for the benefit of those who dont wish to look, here you go: Tech Central Station is supported by sponsoring corporations that share our faith in technology and free markets. Smart application of technology - combined with pro free market, science-based public policy - has the ability to help us solve many of the world's problems, and so we are grateful to AT&T, Avue Technologies, The Coca-Cola Company, ExxonMobil, General Motors Corporation, Intel, McDonalds, Merck, Microsoft, Nasdaq, PhRMA, and Qualcomm for their support. All of these corporations are industry leaders that have made great strides in using technology for our betterment, and we are proud to have them as sponsors. However, the opinions expressed on these pages are solely those of the writers and not necessarily of any corporation or other organization. Um yeah Tech Central, we believe you! Wowlook at those corporations, hmm they are all so trustworthy, and nice and have no vested interest! Also going back to Joshs quote CIA, British M6 intelligence, and Russian intelligence all said that Sadam has WMD's, and Sadam has many connections to the terror network responsible for 9/11 Um apart from those sources being in the back pockets of their governments (I mean would you **** on your boss?), yeah I thought we cleared that up in the last post I made. I mean Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice!!! Just in case you missed it the first time, and were a little to pissed at what I wrote, here it is again: Nancy said Colin Powell himself stated in Feb 2001 (before the invasion) "he [Sadaam] has not developed any significant capability with respect to WMD, he is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours." Condoleezza Rice said prior to the invasion in July 2001 "We are able to keep arms from him, his military forces have not been rebuilt." PS: I can show you the televised conferences if you like! Sorry for interrupting myself, I then continued Another justification put forward for the war was that there was an active cooperation between Iraq and Al Qaeda and that WMD would easily get passed between the two. There are many people who say that there is more than likely no link between Osama/Al Qaeda and Saddam (Chomsky, Andew Wilkie former Australian Intelligence Officer, Former NATO commander General Wesley Clark etc), it is well known that Saddam disliked Osama intensely, and would never had assisted in the 9/11 atrocities or had any dealings with Al Qaeda. Neighbours surrounding Iraq at the time, including Israeli intelligence dismissed the allegations which were later undermined by the UN inspectors. How often does this have to be said? Although I have to give it to the propaganda machine, apparently 30% of all Americans believe WMD do exist in Iraq man I would love those stats in my job I might get that pay rise I am hankering for! Josh continues If you are the president and you know all this tell me that you don't take action. If you are the president are you going to let Iraq violate resolution after resolution while the rest of the world fears what he may be doing and hiding? Um yeah once again, its a pot calling the kettle black moment the US is well known for violating UN resolutions. Nicaragua. I rest my case. Josh said Do you think that Sadam really was not seeking these weapons and once he got them do you think he would target the United States? Do you think the world is not better off with Sadam out of power? Abso-blumin-lutely! Hell wouldnt you!!! Most countries would love to follow by North Koreas example. Piss America off but make sure you have nukes first. Question: Why hasnt the US invaded North Korea? Could it be that they are of no economic value (i.e. dirt poor) and have nukes? And yeah Saddam is better off out of power he is a sick sick evil man (hmm I feel like I have a stutter - I have said it so many times). But once again read my post abovewhat gives the US/UK the right to invade, take control, kill thousands? And if they feel there was just cause why didnt they do they do the same in the early days of the atrocities inflicted on the East Timorese by the Indonesians or Israeli attacks against its own population etc etc etc. Why the double standard? If Bush would have waited not pre-emptively striking but waiting until Iraq was an imminent threat there would have been a much greater loss of life than we had now. Continue to support our troops and remember the soliders that have died in this war no doubt saved the lives of so many others. See Josh, I sooooo dont believe that, I will kill you because that way I save another life? That seems like such a lame justification. Also Josh, I take it that you realise that you can be called up for the draft (BTW you are a prime candidate at your age and level of health theyd love ya). A lot of Americans who support this invasion dont realise that they can be drafted and will actually have to go over there and have to look down the barrel of a gun. Would you be willing to go over and support the policies of a president you so admire and take another persons life? If so, you could always volunteer now and show your support by action. Um, BTW you do realise that you can be drafted even though you are studying? And you do realise that the axis of evil still includes North Korea 2 down and 1 to go and all that? In which case the US is going to need a lot more troops. See my big concern is that you look at this and say that this was a preemptive strike against a country that was an imminent threat against the US, even though all evidence has proved to the contrary. Iraq was in no position to attack the US in part due to crippling sanctions imposed. If a 1999 Unicef report is right and half a million children have died as a direct result of food and medicinal sanctions, with 200 hundred Iraqi children dying every day do you think this country has enough resources to build up its WMD? Josh said More and more evidence has been surfacing of WMD's that were in Iraq including dismantled Iraqi weapons facilities in Jordan, Netherlands, and Turkey and traces of WMD's a being found in Iraq. At the risk of sounding like one of your tutors. WHAT EVIDENCE? show me the photos, the stories, the overwhelming support for your argumentplease substantiate your claims! Josh said SEN. JOHN KERRY: "t is something that we know-for instance, Saddam Hussein has used weapons of mass destruction against his own people, and there is some evidence of their efforts to try to secure these kinds of weapons and even test them." We know for a fact that Sadam had these weapons and used them before. Yep, yep, yep, and more yep. He is an evil evil man yaddah yaddah yaddah this historical fact is not disputed. But the point is, if I may paraphrase your National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice and Secretary of State Colin L. Powell, his military force was never rebuilt and he had not developed any significant capability with respect to WMD (boy am I having a scratched record moment). Josh said We know he was trying to get them. and what do you think he was going to do with them: From a newspaper owned by Sadam's son Uday printed this after 9/11 "use all means-and they are numerous-against the aggressors...and considering everything American as a military target, including embassies, installations, and American companies, and to create suicide/martyr [fidaiyoon] squads to attack American military and naval bases inside and outside the region, and mine the waterways to prevent the movement of war ships..." and Sadam said this in 2000 "The Arab people have not so far fulfilled their duties. They are called upon to target U.S. and Zionist interests everywhere and target those who protect these interests." There is no where in this statement a suggestion that he had WMD (and really citing anything Uday had involvement in as a reliable source is just really truly bizarre), and what country would be stupid enough to give them to him or indeed would actually have the resources to give them to him. I can imagine the conversation with Saddam and the interrogators. Well yeah, I got the WMD from [insert country and trust me nobody wants to be that named country!]. Right, lets nuke em Remember this also, although Saddam called upon the Arab people to fulfill their duties, he was not particularly liked by most Arabs. Should this rouge regime not have been considered an enemy in the war on terror. 4 independent commisions directly stated that neither George W Bush or Tony Blair lied about information of WMD's but it was faulty information that was blamed. Each commision then went on to state in the report is that neither Bush or Blair forced intelligence to incriminate Iraq. The British Iraq intelligence commision stated that even without the finding of WMD's in Iraq the war was justified. But there it was in black and white Bush didn't lie and the war was justified. At the risk again of sounding like one of your tutors. Cite please. BTW if I follow your line of argument without checking your sources, I find it disturbing that the US National Security Advisor and Secretary of State provided the US president with faulty information when they happily provided a press audience with information that Iraq did not have WMD not long before the invasion of Iraq. Josh said - I don't know what goes through the mids of these wackos on left. Wow there it is againmakes me go all warm and fuzzy inside. Josh said Would Iraq and the rest of the world be better off with Sadam still in power. Dismantling this terrible regime should be one of the greatest accomplishments of our lifetime but instead the United States is being demonized by the left. When an American hero dies in Iraq saving the lives of thousands of people they blame Bush and not the enemy. Not realizing these terrorists that we are fighting want you dead just as much as they want our soliders dead. Remember who the enemy is. I find it rather insulting that you question who I think the enemy is, as well as questioning my integrity when it comes to loss of lives (American soldiers AND Iraqi civilians after all a lot more have died than died in the 9/11 attacks). I have always considered the atrocities that were visited on the people in the world trade centre/pentagon/airplanes and the atrocities visited upon the Iraqi people as an affront to all things sacred not matter what your religion/ideology is. No one deserves to die for someone else greed. Whether it is for power, dominance, terror or money. All I ask is that you perhaps consider some of my points with an open mind. Go to the sources I cite. Read them. Feel free to ask questions. Feel free to investigate beyond what you have been told by the media (which is predominately owned by the Murdock empire). I am not asking you to vote for either candidate or even vote at all (nor would I ever try to convince you to vote for either). In case you wondering who I would vote for, I vote for 'no war'. If I may quote one of your fellow brilliant Americans Benjamin Franklin - There never was a good war or a bad peace. Now if it alright with you I am going off to do some skins
