Sims 2 "Worse than Hot Coffee for GTA"; Possible Ban?

Discussion in 'The Sims 2' started by Randomzero, Jul 22, 2005.

  1. Randomzero

    Randomzero New Member

    Sims 2 "Worse than Hot Coffee for GTA"; Possible Ban?

    (yes, its already happened in China). Anyways, the infamous lawyer Jack Thompson (at least infamous to us hardcore gamers), the guy who managed to tag San Andreas with an AO rating is trying to get TS2 banned, and, pardon mon francais, but hes pulling stuff out of his butt to get it banned. An article on Gamespot explains further.

    Essentialy the fact that theres a cheat to show a smooth mannakin like body merits a ban. And yet he says that they're modeled with all the nudity, which is a lie, so he probably needs to get disbarred anywyas.

    My opinion is that anyone who has the degree of intelligent to decide right and wrong (from my life experince gaming since I was 4, 13.) should play ANYTHING they want. I really blame bad parenting for those who are trying to kill gaming. I mean, the kids who imitate VGs and go crazy are the ones who were messed up anyways.
     
  2. Mirelly

    Mirelly Active Member

    I've read about this sort of thing in recent days. It didn't interest me a great deal other than intellectually so I haven't stored away the memory of where or what game(s), exactly, were under attack. However I did think at the time that it was only a matter of time before such strange and peverted people turned their attention to TS2.

    "Peverted"? You bet. I'd as soon take my chances in the rubble of the post-apocalypse with a few honest-to-goodness 'deviants' who knew how to do useful stuff (including the provision of nipples for female sims for those players that find the absence disturbing and offensive) than with the sewer-bound minds of a pseudo-moralistic hegemony whose only agendum is to make us all feel filthy simply for having normal human feelings, emotions and desires.

    Yes I am a moderator but that won't stop me from having, nor expressing, my personal opinions. Wholesomeness begins with the whole. The moment we take away parts of the whole -- for whatever reason -- we are firstly challenging the correctness and purity of our own ( discrete and deeply personal) religious and/or moral beliefs and secondly we are debasing our own experience of life by seeking to deny others the right to learn the same way we ourselves did: by trial and error and by an innate curiosity that thirsts for discovery and for new knowledge.

    OK Rant over. I am calm now. Thank you Random0 for setting me off on one. :)
     
  3. amethyst

    amethyst New Member

    The first thing I thought when I read this article was, "Oh, no, pedophiles can use pencils to draw naked pictures of children! Better outlaw those, too." Personally, it never occured to me that anyone would make their sim kids naked, and I wonder about someone who came up with that idea all on his own as Mr. Thompson apparantly did.

    Mirelly makes an excellent point, too. There is nothing inherently wrong or evil about the naked human body, and teaching our children that there is does nothing but send them confusing messages and open the way for all sorts of issues in adulthood.

    I really don't expect anything to come from this, though. The GTA hot coffee mod was put in the game by the manufacturer, whereas the only way to get true nudity in TS2 is through 3rd-party content, so there is really no way EA could be held responsible. That would be like my mother suing Paramount for that time she caught me sneaking into a rated-R movie at 14.
     
  4. Jiko

    Jiko Lab Specimen Collector

    Actually, it has been held to be illegal in some cases to have painted or drawn pictures of fictional naked children. This has been upheld as child pornography in some courts. I speak as a long-time member of the National Coalition Against Censorship and Feminists for Free Expression, both worthy organizations. NCAC especially is an activist group and deserves your support.

    Today's news is that the newest version of Grand Theft Auto has been denied a rating and must be pulled from mainstream stores. This is due to the secret, hacker-only sex content.

    What blows my mind is that the violence on GTA isn't the problem, nor is the seemingly endless murder and torture of young women on primetime television cop shows. We can have a reasonable discussion about whether that's over the top. But it doesn't seem possible to have a reasonable discussion with many people about nipples.
     
  5. Mirelly

    Mirelly Active Member

    Too flaming right, Jiko! If only all the prigs could wake up to the insanity of their rhetoric, which essentially boils down to this: the filth doesn't damage me but I want it banned because it will certainly damage (almost) everybody else. Oh my! If it wasn't so ******* (those are my asterisks) funny for its sheer bloodyminded arrogance we'd still have to laugh at it to stop ourselves weeping.
     
  6. J. M. Pescado

    J. M. Pescado Fat Obstreperous Jerk

    The irony of all this is that if video games cause people to do the things they see depicted, why is it that most people do not go about serially murdering random pedestrians, but *DO* go about having promiscuous sex with random people, something they did *NOT* see in a video game? Frankly, I don't really see such a thing in a video game as being a problem: If anything, anyone who plays these games is considerably less likely to get laid.
     
  7. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Benevolent Dictator Staff Member

    Sims 2 Content "Worse than Hot Coffee Mod for GTA"

    Miami attorney Jack Thompson claims cheat codes make EA's life sim a pedophile's paradise by showing genitalia; calls for ban on T-rated game.

    How do you like your hot coffee? If you're Jack Thompson, you like it scalding game publisher's laps. The Miami attorney and antigaming activist has done his share to see that games don't fall into the wrong hands. And lately, those hands have belonged to almost everyone.

    Thompson was among those who spearheaded the recent effort to slap an "Adults Only" rating on Rockstar Games' Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, and he's often been on the forefront of many other gaming issues, several of which have targeted the crime-spree-based GTA franchise. In the past, he's represented defendants who have been the victims of GTA-inspired crimes, including the triple homicide of three police officers by an 18-year-old boy in Alabama.

    His beef with San Andreas? Unused code in the game that depicts sexual acts. These minigames can be unlocked by using game-cheat devices or patches available on the Internet.

    Thompson is on a roll...and he's not done yet. His latest goat is a game that doesn't involve guns, carjacking, or prostitutes: He's going after Electronic Arts' The Sims 2.

    In a manifesto sent today to press outlets, Thompson focuses on dismantling the Entertainment Software Ratings Board and exposing what he calls the industry's "latest dirty little secret." The secret's out now, and it involves nude sims.

    In the statement, Thompson says, "Sims 2, the latest version of the Sims video game franchise ... contains, according to video game news sites, full frontal nudity, including nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair."
    The Sims 2 is a "life simulator." In the game, players steer their digital beings around their cyberlives. Actions include everything from the spectacular (getting married, having children, receiving promotions at work) to the mundane (cooking microwaved meals, going to the bathroom, mopping the floor). Such activities, as in real life, sometimes require nudity. EA circumvents inappropriateness by "blurring" out the nether regions, almost to a comical sense.

    Knowing that the game is popular among all ages, EA has even taken steps to ensure that Sims fans aren't exposed to indecent depictions. In the recent expansion pack, The Sims 2 University, gamers can send their teenage sims off to college. However, instead of packing the expansion with "keggers" and "reefer," EA chose to use juice and bubble blowers.

    Thompson doesn't seem to care. He cites a cheat code that can remove the blur that covers the nether regions. "The nudity placed there by the publisher/maker, Electronic Arts, is accessed by the use of a simple code that removes what is called 'the blur' which obscures the genital areas. In other words, the game was released to the public by the manufacturer knowing that the full frontal nudity was resident on the game and would be accessed by use of a simple code widely provided on the Internet."

    It's not just the adults that are liberated from their wardrobes. Sims kids can also be nudified, "much to the delight, one can be sure, of pedophiles around the globe who can rehearse, in virtual reality, for their abuse."
    Were this to be true, Thompson would have his smoking gun, and EA would be forced to recall all copies of The Sims 2. However, it's what's under the blur that Thompson's after. And what happens when the blur is lifted? A simple mannequin-esque smooth body, according to EA.

    Jeff Brown, vice president of corporate communications at EA, in response to the accusations, told GameSpot, "This is nonsense. We've reviewed 100 percent of the content. There is no content inappropriate for a teen audience. Players never see a nude sim. If someone with an extreme amount of expertise and time were to remove the pixels, they would see that the sims have no genitals. They appear like Ken and Barbie."

    Thompson doesn't buy it. "The sex and the nudity are in the game. That's the point. The blur is an admission that even the 'Ken and Barbie' features should not be displayed. The blur can be disarmed. This is no different than what is in San Andreas, although worse."

    [UPDATE] Thompson this afternoon updated his earlier statement, saying he is aware certain mods only remove "the blur," but adds that "Electronic Arts has done nothing about this." Thompson's new conclusion: EA is "cooperating, gleefully, with the mod community to turn Sims 2 into a porn offering."

    The last time we checked, The Sims 2 was rated T for Teen by the ESRB, which means that anyone 13 years of age, with $50 to spend, can purchase the game.

    http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/22/news_6129609.html
     
  8. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Benevolent Dictator Staff Member

    What are your thoughts of the above that Thompson made? Valid arguments? Do you agree with him? Disagree?

    I'll make a rebuttal on a later timeframe... :)
     
  9. hugzncuddles

    hugzncuddles New Member

    A paedophile will harm children without any 'encouragement' from sims 2. Believe me, there are more graphic images out there on the internet and in other places than there are on sims 2. Why does this attorney stop at sims 2 with his accusations? Why not go to Toys R us and remove all the real dolls etc? A paedophile could just as well go and buy a ken and Barbie and do things with those, or buy other branded dolls and act out things on those. It's the same thing.

    Ugh, this attorney has no idea. Now i'm all for stopping paedophiles as i know directly what can happen (a distant relation of mine has been attacked as a child, and my brother was attacked aged 11), but believe me, a paedophile has all the ideas and plans in their mind already. I highly doubt that a paedophile will think, "oh i don't know what to do, let me go and buy sims 2 and try a few things". They will just do it regardless, because they are sick, disgusting, filthy people. They access porn through a wide range of means and i am quite sure that the last thing they will look towards is the sims 2.

    I can understand the comment about san andreas, but come on, a paedophile already has plans/ideas about what they want to do. They don't need to buy a videogame to act it out.

    I'm pretty stressed out now, painful thing to talk about, but whilst i am all for stopping paedophiles, i strongly believe that sims 2 is not a factor. if people believe it is, then why not stop the sale of dolls too.
     
  10. garyalexza

    garyalexza New Member

    Video games don't affect children. Take Pacman for example. You don't see everyone running around in darkened halls, chomping pills and listening to repetitive music.
     
  11. J. M. Pescado

    J. M. Pescado Fat Obstreperous Jerk

    Eh, I don't really buy into this nonsense at all. I mean, if people really did all run out and imitate video games, we'd have a lot more violence, and a lot less promiscuous sex with random people. As it stands, reality works the other way around, and they sure as hell didn't learn it from video games. I actually believe that simulated-sex in video games would reduce the amount of this going on for real. Why? Because people who play games for that are losers who are not going to get laid.
     
  12. garyalexza

    garyalexza New Member

    George Orwell's 1984 is a thought-provoking read ... Big Brother here we come.
     
  13. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Benevolent Dictator Staff Member

    On the contrary Gary. There's been several conclusive studies that show video games can affect kids in both positive and negative aspects.

    One study I remembered reading about was that kids who play First person shooters have faster hand eye coordination. Plus they also have faster response times and able to seek things out much quicker

    Another study I read was that kids who play violent video games were often more likely to become violent. In this study it was rather interesting because its still rather controversial. However I have to agree with the study since it's based on the premise that kids learn by doing, repeating. (sorta like Pavlov, and the ringing of the bell).

    It becomes engrained in them because they keep doing it over and over.
     
  14. Kristalrose

    Kristalrose Wakey-Wakey!

    OMG!!! What is wrong with me? I must be a horrible parent!! I am raising a future pediphile! Someone should take me out and beat me because I play with a anti-censor patch on my game, and I allow my teenaged 14 year old son to play it also!!! Bad mommy, bad!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

    You know, we have so many real problems in this world. Why do a___holes like this have to go around making up trouble? I want to know where in the game does it allow someone, even with mods, to molest a child? Warn me so I don't upload it by accident.

    I did accidently download one on TS1 that changed all females defult PJ's to black frilly things and fishnet stockings, including the little girls (shudder). I got rid of that quickly, let me tell you.

    I wonder if that arrogant SOB ever sat down and actually played TS2?? Oh, no, he's too busy writing legal breifs and scheduling press conferences. He's running for something, rest assured!! He's a politician, something much more evil, IMHO than a Maxis Game Programer.

    I told my son about it, and he said, "He sucks! Mom, someone needs to go break his neck!" (sigh) must be something he learned from playing too many video games.

    But you know what? With him playing video games all the time, I know where he is, I know what he's doing, and I know he's not doing drugs or boosting cars or getting into fights or getting some little girl pregnant. I guess the "honorable" Mr. Thompson would rather him be out doing that. :mad:
     
  15. Mirelly

    Mirelly Active Member

    I guess that Ken and Barbie must be outlawed as well. After all any resourceful child might well take a felt marker and add realistic detail ... that would be too awful to contemplate. The Mattel veeps should be incarcerated forthwith. I mean the doll isn't even clearly marked and sold as suitable for teenagers only.

    But if you feel strongly about this issue (and if you are here reading this then you ought to ... you should be plaguing your congressman (http://www.house.gov/writerep/); starting up a campaign at your school and in your community.

    The man, Thompson, is utter fool (at best) and a dangerous pervert at worst (IMO). His misguided and stupid campaigning threatens to destroy an industry's well-supported and mostly respected self-governance and all this not because of excessive violence which has any amount of evidential, albeit arguable, matter to condemn it but because of (cartoon) nudity. It is time to arrest this campaign before it becomes a serious bandwagon.

    On the other hand all that will happen if the man does succeed will be the destruction of the ESRB's fragile legitimacy, followed by a wave of new businesses that will surely start up to fill the void left by Walmart and its ilk if video games come out of mainstream retailing.

    For sure we will not see EA, id, Sierra and all the others disappear, cease trading, or surrender their freedom of operation. The US may be the world's largest market but it is not the world's only market. The rest of world might even benefit from this fiasco because games giants might just start aiming games at more international audience. It may be a pain to design for 30+ languages but the developed Eurasian block has half a billion well educated, liberal-minded consumers with plenty of disposable income.

    Just my thoughts. (You asked for them, Josh :p )
     
  16. thechartreusetiger

    thechartreusetiger New Member

    Hahaha, that's utter nonsense. The internet is far more worse than any video game, Grand Theft Auto or TS2.

    I've seen far worse things by the time I was 12 from the net (it was spam mail) than from The Sims even with the hack that takes away the blur.

    Paedophila is certainly bad, but if a pervert really wanted to see naked children, he'd go find a real child, not gaze lustfully as computer generated child steps in and out of the bathtub/shower.

    That lawmaker just loves the limelight and his accusations have no grounds logically.
     
  17. Jiko

    Jiko Lab Specimen Collector

    Of course video games can affect behavior. So does church, reading books, having friends and being reared by parents. We learn by watching, imitating, doing, trying. Kids will try things. If they hear hate speech, they will use hate speech. And vice versa. It is up to parents to teach critical thinking, ethics, and responsibility.

    The United States sensibility about this kind of thing is second only to that in the countries our government purports to dislike. The rest of the world - think Brazil, Iceland, New Zealand, Tobago, Japan, Switzerland, etc etc. - is far less afraid of real and imagined sexual content and much more relaxed about ordinary human behavior.

    I used to laugh at this stuff more - before the Patriot Act. I once knew that no matter how much ranting and raving was done and how much fear this cohort showed about even the most benign of nudity (like breastfeeding) - I once knew that our culture was on a long trend toward social liberalization and equality and openness.

    Now I find myself, at 48, a child of the 60s and 70s, watching the culture become rigid, reactionary, and full of hate and I SEE IT BEING PUT INTO LAW.

    I do think it's not enough for us to complain to each other here and feel superior and right. We have to be active in response. WE HAVE TO WRITE LETTERS, MAKE PHONE CALLS, SEND FAXES. E-mail petitions are worthless to legislators. PICK UP YOUR TELEPHONE AND CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVE. Write a letter to the editor of your newspaper. TALK to your neighbors. MAKE NOISE.
     
  18. J. M. Pescado

    J. M. Pescado Fat Obstreperous Jerk

    Meh, I don't really buy it that video games are the issue here. Kids have been playing "soldier", "cowboys and indians", and other such violent entertainments since before games were invented. And despite all this "violence" in video games, most of society's violence is committed by people who can't afford computers or video games. What's that tell you?

    I say it's that violent video games don't make you violent, it's that violent people play violent games.
     
  19. Mirelly

    Mirelly Active Member

    I hear you Jiko and it bothers me too that our society is so fully controlled by reactionary fools (who just happen to be the same people who seemed to be as cool as "we" were way back when we had no responsibilities). Why is it the case that most teenagers grow into the same ignorant, bigotted old farts that their parents were? It is one thing to wish to be a better parent to one's own children but most young parents take that responsibility irresponsibly. They either seek to lock their children away from all possible harm or make no effort at all each as as bad as the other. Though it is possible to argue that the former is the more serious form of abuse; if only because it is systematic and governed only by glandular fears and intolerance. A total lack of parental care and responsibility might be forgiveable on the grounds that ignorance, poverty and lack of opportunity are more substantially the fault of the wider aspects of human society. Whereas trying to be better than your forebearers by taking their example and amplifying it is so mind-bogglingly faulty a philosophy as to beggar description ... let alone further explanation!
     
  20. garyalexza

    garyalexza New Member

    What I was saying there was toungue-in-cheek ... I was actually taking a dig at the rave scene.

    Children and everyone else learn from the sum of their experiences. Some not as well as others, some better than others, and thats what makes us all unique. As a parent you need to make sure that they are not gratuitously exposed to blatant sex, violence and suchlike, but at the same time not overly protect them so they end up as a naive adult. I don't need no thought police.

    Frankly the human imagination is a far more dangerous thing than a game or movie with some sex scenes and violence. People should have ratings! Actually, lets give everyone prozac, that way nobody will be violent.
     

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