Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by ManagerJosh, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Benevolent Dictator Staff Member


    Okay, so the last couple of week, I've been fighting PayPal and an unknown credit card company regarding a chargeback against WorldSims for...a DONATION...GRR

    How pathetic is that..

    Anyhow, the first two emails I got -.-

    I sent a reply of:

    This afternoon I got the following emails from PayPal...

    I just sent a reply of:

    THIS IS TOTALLY ABSURD. I mean it is one thing to get a chargeback when you are buying a tangible good, but GOOD GRIEF!! THIS IS A DONATION!! WhAT THE @#$*&#@$ does PAYPAL EXPECT FOR ME FROM A DONATION!?!?!

    O yea get this too... The donation was 10.00 each, so this guy John, makes a donation of 20.00 total.

    So the 20.00 is gone, and then I lost another 20.00 because of paperwork fees or whatever chargeback reversal fee PayPal got hit with, so now instead of a 20.00 donation, I'm hit with a 40.00 debt!


    You're a jerk, John. If you think you can get away with it, think twice.
  2. jupitershana

    jupitershana Kitty Fanatic!

    That's terrible!!!! I agree with you 110% Josh; John, you are a jerk. I've donated to World Sims and it is made VERY clear that it is a donation. I was under no expectations to be receiving something in return. John you should have to pay the original $20.00 and cover the $40.00 debt! This isn't fair for a non-profit website to have to cover your stupidity.
  3. Lynet

    Lynet New Member

    Two possibilities come to mind:

    1) The guy is a jerk and a prankster trying to make trouble.


    2) One of his kids got hold of his credit card and a) they haven't told him what they did so he doesn't know about the lengthy process of making a donation, or b) they DID tell him that they used his card, and he's a jerk because he should have contacted Worldsims first before complaining to his bank.

    Obviously, Josh knows more about the person who signed on and made a donation than I do, so I'm just making wild guesses. :eek: I do know that kids use their parents credit cards when they're not allowed and it's the first thing I thought of. Why would anyone, twice, go through a long donation process and then want his money back? Unless he wasn't the one who made the donation.

    Of these two options, I'm voting for 1), a simpleminded jerk.
  4. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Benevolent Dictator Staff Member

    Unfortunately I don't. According to the transaction records, he placed the two donations under no worldsims account. Moreso, there wasn't any attempt on his part to contact me regarding the donation saying it was unauthorized. He just called his credit card company and issued a chargeback.
  5. JohnEZ

    JohnEZ The Mac Guy

    This is pretty ridiculous. I mean, to donate and then withdraw it... sounds like some ornery guy trying to cause trouble, to me.

  6. Chee-Z

    Chee-Z The Go-Kart Mozart

    It could be an identity theft matter too, but I don't know why someone would donate money to a website under someone else's name/credit card. :eek: Sounds pretty weird to me, sorry that it happened. To put it crudely, that sucks. :(
  7. Sylla

    Sylla New Member

    Wow Josh, I just don't have words to express how terrible I feel for you, and World Sims as well. I can understand this chargeback if it was done unknown to the card holder, but for paypal to charge you for it as well? That I find deplorable. Like you said over and over again, this was a donation that was made, not 'purchased' and to demand a refund on such a thing is shocking to say the least. You wouldn't see someone running down the road after the red cross door knockers to ask for your money back now would you?
    I'm so sorry that you have to deal with this and I hope that there is something that can be done to rectify it.
  8. hugzncuddles

    hugzncuddles New Member

    Only just seen this thread...

    Words fail me Josh. I can only agree with everything that's already been posted, and I personally feel that it's a deliberate attempt by someone who wants to hurt Worldsims. After the lengthy procedure that he followed, he cannot fail to know it was a donation, not just once, but TWICE. Why should you be charged for his actions? The fact that he never contacted you about it also shows that it was not 'accidental', as I see it anyway.

    Grrrrrr!!! I hope that PayPal/the credit card company get this sorted out soon.
  9. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Benevolent Dictator Staff Member

    Just a small update, I am now considering retaining legal council to pursue this on ethical grounds.

    Moreso, today I also asked PayPal to remove my credit card and checking account information and they refused. It was not refused once, but three times!

    First time by the first customer care agent, then a supervisor, then the supervisor of the supervisor.

    The most they offered was to disable it, which does nothing as someone with proper clearance could still gain access to my billing information!

    O yes, get this. I tried removing the information via the website and it doesn't let me because I refused to pay the $40.00 on principle!!

  10. jupitershana

    jupitershana Kitty Fanatic!

    Wow, I'm so sorry this is still going on Josh. I'd have to agree that it might be time to look at legal advice to see what you can do. I think they are screwing you over. I've donated here and there is no way you "can't know" what you were doing.

    On another note, can you cancel that particular credit card and checking account and open a different one?
  11. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Benevolent Dictator Staff Member

    I'm considering that, however I have so many financial stuff tied into that, including licenses associated with various cards, so because of PayPal's refusal to terminate the information as I demand, I have to put in an extra 20hrs of work resetting everything tied in with automated payments and billing for this site.

    Consequently now, I'm also going to have to start also collecting billing information to start protecting myself.
  12. jupitershana

    jupitershana Kitty Fanatic!

    Before this last job I used to work for Wells Fargo Bank; one thing with Checking accounts is if you close one because you suspect fraud (or if you just tell them you lost your checkbook) they can set up a new checking account that is tied to your old one for a period of time to allow you time to get those accounts all transferred over. You can block transactions from certain companies as well; I'd check with your bank just to see what they can do to assist in making it easier.

    If you need any help with anything let me know; I've got some extra time on my hands for the next two weeks or possibly more until I find a job. (I was laid off last Thursday). I'd be more than happy to help you with anything on the website; even if you just need someone to help with mod duties for a while. (Which I want to be a mod here anyway!)
  13. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Benevolent Dictator Staff Member

    Alright so a few status updates here:

    Got an email today which sparked this off:

    I promptly sent them this reply:

    So a few minutes ago, I got this email.... now MORE INFORMATION has appeared from the buy'ers credit card? Eeish -_-;;;
  14. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Benevolent Dictator Staff Member

    O yes I sent Mr. Sievers an email from those two PayPal email addresses he used..

  15. hugzncuddles

    hugzncuddles New Member

    Hmm, I am interested to know what his reply will be. I think you're absolutely right in pursuing this legally as the whole thing is ridiculous. It effectively means that anyone can make several donations and then claim them all back, at YOUR cost. How can that possibly be allowed???
  16. jupitershana

    jupitershana Kitty Fanatic!

    Wow; makes them sounds like once you sent them a letter threatening legal council they realized that you weren't one to mess with. So NOW they are finally working! I hope this resolves itself Josh and you don't have to pay back a dime. It's absolutely ridiculous.

    I too am interested in his reply.
  17. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Benevolent Dictator Staff Member

    Random Update... got the other dreaded final email. Sent in the same, reply as earlier saying they aren't in good faith representing my interests.

  18. jupitershana

    jupitershana Kitty Fanatic!

    Isn't that pretty much the same email they sent to you before as well...I think some personal attention from PayPal should be on this instead of a generic auto message.
  19. Lynet

    Lynet New Member

    It looks the same to me, too. I think that Josh is talking to a computer with pre-programmed email responses.

    In Maryland I believe there is something called Small Claims court where you don't need a lawyer. You can get forms and fill them out yourself and file them with the Clerk or the Court (or whatever.)

    I also used a legal service online once. The service had a load of documents and instructions for filling them out yourself. It's been quite a few years so I don't remember the name of the service. It required a fee but it was cheaper than a lawyer. Lawyers are expensive. :(

    But if Josh could find something online, or send a really nasty letter by way of snail mail, certified, etc., maybe a human being from PayPal would take notice.
  20. ManagerJosh

    ManagerJosh Benevolent Dictator Staff Member

    Does small claims cover breach of contract?

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